TownerFan 5,247 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If La-La Land is giving us the composers intentions AND breaking what would otherwise be a 30-minute track into individual tracks so that the listener can still jump to his favorite moments but the composer's original intentions are preserved, they should absolutely be applauded. It's how I would have done it if I was the album producer. And its what Williams wanted for this release!Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If La-La Land is giving us the composers intentions AND breaking what would otherwise be a 30-minute track into individual tracks so that the listener can still jump to his favorite moments but the composer's original intentions are preserved, they should absolutely be applauded. It's how I would have done it if I was the album producer. And its what Williams wanted for this release!Amen.Amen to the amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You can't "Amen" an "Amen". That's against the rules of the "Amen".You can't use the word "Amen" more than twice within one post!That's also against the rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 340 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 3 years of waiting, we're finally getting Hook and all people can do is complain because of how the tracks will be setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 3 years of waiting, we're finally getting Hook and all people can do is complain because of how the tracks will be setup? Okay who's complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,818 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 There is debate on preferences on how the tracks are presented. And I will utterly deny complaining about the release. Infact I have proclaimed my happiness about it ever since it was announced. Oh the joy! The joy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I think I'd be "complaining" if there were an 18-minute track on the album! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 47 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Don't ever listen to any symphonies?And re: "The End of Hook"-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I do, but Hook (as great as it is) is hardly a symphony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 5,247 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I for one prefer to listen to the cues with all the segues exactly how the composer wrote them. It's nice to have indexed tracks so you can go quickly to a preferred point without loading the entire track, but I don't have problems if they're edited into longer 10min-plus tracks. To have all the cues separated in recording sessions style on an official album is nonsense to me. The separation of the cues Williams and other composers do is only for actual recording and music editing purposes. Splitting a large section of continued music into smaller 2-3min. cues makes quicker and easier for the composer to get a good performance and it's also easier for the music editor to use them for the final dubbing mix. But the music is clearly written to be heard in an uninterrupted flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 12 minutes is the limit, for me at least."Indy's Very First Adventure", the expanded version, is exactly 12 minutes, and I often find myself wanting to listen to the last 5 minutes... and it's somewhat of a pain every time!But 12 minutes is still okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 47 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I for one prefer to listen to the cues with all the segues exactly how the composer wrote them. It's nice to have indexed tracks so you can go quickly to a preferred point without loading the entire track, but I don't have problems if they're edited into longer 10min-plus tracks. To have all the cues separated in recording sessions style on an official album is nonsense to me. The separation of the cues Williams and other composers do is only for actual recording and music editing purposes. Splitting a large section of continued music into smaller 2-3min. cues makes quicker and easier for the composer to get a good performance and it's also easier for the music editor to use them for the final dubbing mix. But the music is clearly written to be heard in an uninterrupted flow.Precisely.Hook may not be a symphony, but if I'm listening to whole thing in one sitting, I'd just as soon have the music be continuous where it was intended to be so. It can be more bothersome (for me anyway) to hear--as has been mentioned regarding the Concord TOD, for instance--music, clearly meant to flow together, disrupted by a few moments of silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Precisely.Hook may not be a symphony, but if I'm listening to whole thing in one sitting, I'd just as soon have the music be continuous where it was intended to be so. It can be more bothersome (for me anyway) to hear--as has been mentioned regarding the Concord TOD, for instance--music, clearly meant to flow together, disrupted by a few moments of silence.Yes, if.Honestly, I am not talking about dividing an 18 minute track into countless little pieces of about a minute or less! Duh. Surely there is a middle ground!And there is a big difference between the way it's meant to be heard in the movies (oftentimes a cue goes on and on, segues seamlessly into the next cue, etc.), and the way it's best presented on an album. Breaking up an overlong piece into 2 or 3 sections, in a way that makes sense... that's what I am talking about! And for my taste 18 minutes is just too long.No way JW regards this18-minute piece as only "one cue." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,307 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If it can be heard from beginning to end, what's the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,616 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Actually this is no big deal whatsoever!Either way, I am glad we are finally getting this "Expanded Hook"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,818 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I for one prefer to listen to the cues with all the segues exactly how the composer wrote them. It's nice to have indexed tracks so you can go quickly to a preferred point without loading the entire track, but I don't have problems if they're edited into longer 10min-plus tracks. To have all the cues separated in recording sessions style on an official album is nonsense to me. The separation of the cues Williams and other composers do is only for actual recording and music editing purposes. Splitting a large section of continued music into smaller 2-3min. cues makes quicker and easier for the composer to get a good performance and it's also easier for the music editor to use them for the final dubbing mix. But the music is clearly written to be heard in an uninterrupted flow.Precisely.Hook may not be a symphony, but if I'm listening to whole thing in one sitting, I'd just as soon have the music be continuous where it was intended to be so. It can be more bothersome (for me anyway) to hear--as has been mentioned regarding the Concord TOD, for instance--music, clearly meant to flow together, disrupted by a few moments of silence.Yes I agree as much as I did on the previous page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Takis 243 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 You can't "Amen" an "Amen". That's against the rules of the "Amen".John 1:51; 3:3, 5, 11; 5:19, 24, 25; 6:26, 32, 47, 53; 8:34, 51, 58; 10:1, 7; 12:24; 13:16, 20, 21, 38; 14:12; 16:20, 23; and 21:18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,456 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 John Takis FTW.~*~Genesis' "Supper's Ready" is over 23 minutes long. Pink Floyd's "Echoes" is even longer. Movements to symphonies can run upwards of a half hour. I wouldn't dream of cutting them into smaller tracks.On the flip side, some of the longer tracks in Wagner's complete Ring Cycle are easily 90 minutes or more in length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 340 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 If La-La Land is giving us the composers intentions AND breaking what would otherwise be a 30-minute track into individual tracks so that the listener can still jump to his favorite moments but the composer's original intentions are preserved, they should absolutely be applauded. Indeed. The setup for the "Ultimate War" pieces on LLL's Hook doesn't bother me one bit. The great thing about today is, if one has the skills and applications to edit music, then they can separate those big bits into smaller tracks for gapless playback, if they wish to do it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanner251 17 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think Hook is internally one of John Williams' most diverse and varied score. It is also one of the most dense. It is an amazing amount of material and very little of it repeats itself. All of his motifs and themes are presented and then interwoven more densely as the film unfolds. It really is a work of genius and one of my favorites. I have the original, and one of the better sounding bootlegs, but I think they will pale in comparison to this new release. I'll be putting my money down the day of release! Bring on the Hook! And now if we could just get someone to release the full recording sessions of Chamber of Secrets, I'd be able to sleep a whole night through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 350 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The one thing I am worried about is: Will be the unsufferable "We dont wanna grow up" and "Banning back home" be in film order, which I would hate because I would have to program the disc differently, or do they put them at the end of a disc, like source music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,818 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The one thing I am worried about is: Will be the unsufferable "We dont wanna grow up" and "Banning back home" be in film order, which I would hate because I would have to program the disc differently, or do they put them at the end of a disc, like source music.Well that is nothing but minuscule inconvenience that you can yourself rectify. I certainly prefer them where they are, part of the musical storytelling. And you can always skip them if you don't like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crx_brett 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I don't think 'Banning Back Home' will be at the end since it really is not Source Music. It's still part of the score, as much as that is hard to swallow for fans (or non-fans). Sure it isn't in the same vain as the rest of the score, but that was the whole point and intention. John Williams' roots are that of a jazz musician and many of his scores have a definite jazz influence. I see this cue as a chance for him to utilize those tools to create a jazzy, on-the-go, city life, fast paced cue and to show how manic and out of touch Peter was with his family. The cue might be a tad dated or slightly cliche to some, but I firmly believe it is part of the score without any question.Now if the cue were playing in the car or something while Peter was maybe driving it would be a source cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 5,247 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 "Banning Back Home" will definitely be on the main program where it belongs. I guess it will be the full film version (funnily called "Yuppie Sounds" on the manuscript), while the OST version will probably be placed at the end of Disc 2 as a bonus track. Same goes for "We Don't Wanna Grow Up", I presume.In terms of source music, there's the fun calliope-like arrangement of "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" and the christmas carol heard faintly in the background when Peter and family arrive at Granny Wendy's home.I personally hope LLL will retrieve the "Prologue" (aka "Hook Trailer") as the opening track like in the OST--it definitely gives the feeling of a miniature concert overture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,440 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Wrong! Obviously it should start with the Tri-Star logo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Train Station 8,838 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What is people's problem with "Banning Back Home"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,307 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Other than being different to the rest of the score (which doesn't bother me) it sounds like Grusin. Which doesn't bother me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy 55 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think "Banning Back Home" is not a bad cue. It's just different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannhauser 101 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I love banning back home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,456 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I want the "insufferable" tracks left right where they are on the OST, and just flesh out the missing music around them. That's how my quite enjoyable and listenable footwarmer is constructed, aside from the horrendous sound quality of the second half of The Ultimate War. Barring that, that is what I'll "build" for my iPod using the tracks of the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 350 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 It just does not fit tonally to the rest of the score. After the Prologue it is a similar cold shower like the Training Montage in Spacecamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,456 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I...never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,952 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I want those two tracks in film order and in their film versions, never released the tristar logo does not belong here since it's by grushin.I want the prologue as opening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 5,247 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Jay, so is it confirmed that Hook will be limited at 5,000 copies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 60 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I love banning back home!Me too. It sets the whole nostalgic US suburbia scene perfectly. I actually bought my first Grusin album AFTER hearing Banning Back Home, just to find out where Williams' inspiration came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Vincent 247 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Under Scores has published an interview (in French) with Didier C. Deutch, who was involved making the upcoming Hook release. According to the interview the album has two discs and at the request of John Williams certain cues that Williams found too repetitive were eliminated.EDIT: According to the interview "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" will not be included on the album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crx_brett 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Interesting. That interview also confirms that he was trying to push hard for a full release for Titanic (including the film version and what would be a full 2-disc album) but Sony didn't want to spend the money. He also says to be patient and is hopeful there will eventually be a full release perhaps for the 20th anniversary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Holdo 16 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Under Scores has published an interview (in French) with Didier C. Deutch, who was involved making the upcoming Hook release. According to the interview the album has two discs and at the request of John Williams certain cues that Williams found too repetitive were eliminated.EDIT: According to the interview "Take Me Out to the Ball Game" will not be included on the album.A little disappointing, but oh well. Seems like all the important stuff will be on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,818 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 John did it again it seems. John Williams is just too damn humble for our good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delorean90 47 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Too repetitive? I'm racking my brain here...Maaaayybe "Hook's Lament"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Holdo 16 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm going to guess the first part of The Stories Are True. Maybe that bit of Hook's entrance cue that reprises material from Hook-Napped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,440 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Great! In its complete form Hook drags a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,818 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Great! In its complete form Hook drags a bit.Don't you go all Thor on me Stefan. Not you of all people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,307 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 So how much did they took out? I'm unfamiliar with most of the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,818 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 So how much did they took out? I'm unfamiliar with most of the score.We do not know yet. It is hard to determine what Williams thought as needless repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,307 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 What Williams thought?Uuuuuugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,440 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Great! In its complete form Hook drags a bit.Don't you go all Thor on me Stefan. Not you of all people!I have had this opinion since the early 2000's, When I first heard the Concorde boot.There is a lot of GREAT, EPIC, BRILLLIANT stuff that was not on the OST. But also cues that make the complete score drag a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,307 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Betcha they take out the wrong cues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 340 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 There is a lot of GREAT, EPIC, BRILLLIANT stuff that was not on the OST. But also cues that make the complete score drag a bit.I actually have to agree with Steef on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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