Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[KK 3,310]

There are definitely sections missing in the film version Jason. Transitions that are non-existent, abrupt appearances of certain musical phrases out of nowhere. And I'm not just talking about the dialed out parts, if we're going by what Faleel put together. There are clear points where cuts are made (far more obvious than the nicely edited version on the standard album).

I think its made up different parts of alternate recordings of the same cue. If it is all ONE recording like you say, I think a lot of sections were cut and/or rearranged for the scene.

[Jay 41,553]

Well, that is what I said.... it's one recording chopped up and edited one way in the film, and edited a different way on the album.

As you both said, a release of the full unedited recording would be a blessing

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

Its obvious its not all one recording, seeing as we have parts with clean endings, though it may be one version (the only one?), that was recorded in multiple parts.

[Jay 41,553]

Where are these clean endings you speak of?

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

"No orchestra records a 7 minute piece of film music in one shot!"

Well, we have the clean drumroll opening of The Forest River/Through the Cave (where in the film its combined with Well Done Master Baggins) and the clean ending of Leggy Moment #3 in the Production Diaries (the first one that had score in it AND the Score Diary).

[Jay 41,553]

Ah. Interesting fact about that cave music bit - it was written/recorded twice, once as the ending of Well Done Master Baggins, and then again (with the drumroll opening) along with the rest of the cue. The reason for this I believe is there was a reel change there when composing.

I forgot about the Leggy moment "insert" - maybe that was recorded separately... I dunno. Are you sure the clean ending in that production diary wasn't faked, or wasn't a rehearsal take where they just stopped playing there?

Actually wait, don't one of the shots show the sheet music they are playing and it mentions an insert?

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

Its either an insert, or a cue that makes up part of the track, either way, you "lose" (because its not one continuous recording)

BTW, does the unreleased Gandalf theme come before or after the creepy strings stinger in A Spell of Concealment?

[Jay 41,553]

Its either an insert, or a cue that makes up part of the track, either way, you "lose" (because its not one continuous recording)

I dunno. I think the Leggy insert could have been WRITTEN later, but always RECORDED with the rest of the cue.

BTW, does the unreleased Gandalf theme come before or after the creepy strings stinger in A Spell of Concealment?

What timestamp are you referring to that's the "creepy strings stinger"?

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

The production diary shows Pope conducting Leggy Moment 3, and it has the clean ending, of course it COULD be a rehearsal, but I dunno.

Which of these edits is correct?

Number 1:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9bVhJdnVQLXB2azQ/edit?usp=sharing

Number 2:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OHg4VkZSV0JuY2M/edit?usp=sharing

Girion, Lord of Dale (Complete)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9MXVzbmtFaV9tdDA/edit?usp=sharing

Durin's Folk (Complete, Film Version)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9dU94d0hNTXR4U00/edit?usp=sharing

In The Shadow of the Mountain (Complete)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9QlJqZ2VibVplakk/edit?usp=sharing

The Elven Gate (Possibly Tracked)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stt7r2wIE50

[Jay 41,553]

Number 1:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9bVhJdnVQLXB2azQ/edit?usp=sharing

Number 2:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OHg4VkZSV0JuY2M/edit?usp=sharing

Neither, but number 2 is closer

Basically, the "clean opening" of the Standard version of that track is what plays after the "It's Undoubtedly a Trap!" bit

Girion, Lord of Dale (Complete)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9MXVzbmtFaV9tdDA/edit?usp=sharing

Sounds good, but I would consider what begins at 2:05 to be a whole new track from the previous music

Durin's Folk (Complete, Film Version)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9dU94d0hNTXR4U00/edit?usp=sharing

Ah, thanks for this, I hadn't heard the film version of this in a while. So the only REAL difference between this and the album version is the bit from 0:44-0:57 - the extra strings and the kind of difference spacing of the brass part. I still say this could have been a creation of the music editors and not Shore. Or something Pope through together at a session, not something written by Shore.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

Ah, thanks for this, I hadn't heard the film version of this in a while. So the only REAL difference between this and the album version is the bit from 0:44-0:57 - the extra strings and the kind of difference spacing of the brass part. I still say this could have been a creation of the music editors and not Shore. Or something Pope through together at a session, not something written by Shore.

But the real question is: which one do you prefer?

[Jay 41,553]

In the theaters, I remember preferring the film version. Listening to Faleel's edit, I think I prefer the album version. But that could be due to the quality issues from having to use rear channels (instruments seem a bit muted)

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

I tried to spruce up the sound by brightening it up a bit, and "tracking" the brass hits from the album version over top of the film version.

[Jay 41,553]

Interesting.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

You're phoning it in!

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

I even toyed with the idea of editing the album track to the spacing of the brass in the film version, but I didn't have the time and patience for it.

The Woodland Realm (Complete?)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9aWF4Q3dGTkhiaUU/edit?usp=sharing

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

Smaug (Film Version)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9WHl0TF9KbDQyNHc/edit?usp=sharing

Protector of the Common Folk (Complete)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9TzNudDFnc0llXzg/edit?usp=sharing

Number 1:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9bVhJdnVQLXB2azQ/edit?usp=sharing

Number 2:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OHg4VkZSV0JuY2M/edit?usp=sharing

Neither, but number 2 is closer

Basically, the "clean opening" of the Standard version of that track is what plays after the "It's Undoubtedly a Trap!" bit

Like This?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9T2d1ZDdMYTVPaW8/edit?usp=sharing

And now for something really interesting:

Wilderland (Film Version/Partially Unused Insert)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9b2lrSl9pX2hsTkE/edit?usp=sharing

[Jay 41,553]

Smaug (Film Version)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9WHl0TF9KbDQyNHc/edit?usp=sharing

This doesn't play on mobile for some reason - what is it? I mean, "Smaug" is the name of an album track containing music from four completely different scenes from the end of the Film, and they aren't in order. How could you extend one of them and give it a name associated with an album combo of all 4?

[MedigoScan 341]

In this case its the beginning of the Smaug track with the movie version of the healing scene

myself I am hoping for all those other unreleased Smaug bits

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

Smaug (Film Version)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9WHl0TF9KbDQyNHc/edit?usp=sharing

I can't play this right now, but I don't get why you'd have a track named this

I tried to keep as many album titles as possible, its not that whole album track. with the film version of kingsfoil.

[MedigoScan 341]

I suppose its also because thats the only part of the Smaug album track that had any new/altered music at all

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

I edited the final cues into the order MedigoScan posted a while back (with a few minor corrections),and now that the 7.1 channels leaked, I edited all the unreleased music into those tracks

[Jay 41,553]

Well, it seems like a strange name to use for a track that has more to do with Tauriel healing Kili (and Thorin talking to Bilbo) than it does with the dragon

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

It is pending, I might change it.

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

The House of Beorn:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9NllkQ1lxSkpUSEk/edit?usp=sharing

Not At Home:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UE1PbGtaU2ZtN1U/edit?usp=sharing

Tauriel's Decision and Athelas:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9eWdWU0hwV0MtbEU/edit?usp=sharing

If This Should End In Fire:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9SE1XUGJsZ1BJTmM/edit?usp=sharing

My Claws Are Spears (Unreleased)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9eFhKWjRGS1Y3Q0E/edit?usp=sharing

My Armor Is Iron:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UTlfbVUzOXdfWm8/edit?usp=sharing

That should be all the unreleased music right?

am I missing anything?

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

The High Fells (Film Version):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9VGotMFV5bXJwaEk/edit?usp=sharing

[MedigoScan 341]

Love that version of Smaugs theme in 'My Claws are Spears'

allthough it seems to have lost a bit of punch in the editing process there

and I never even noticed High Fells was changed to make it sound less Sauronish

edit:

also I believe the film version of My Armor Is Iron had some altered music when Thorin escapes Smaugs flames near the end

and there was definitely some music inserted in 'Inside Information' just as Smaugs face is revealed

[KK 3,310]

Wow, My Claws Are Spears has some great stuff in it. A lot of it I don't even remember noticing in film (probably because the sound effects was drowning all the music). You can really hear the Sauron/Ring foundations of Smaug's theme there through the harmonic support. And I think I could hear some cool percussion parts in there (underneath the sound effects). Thanks again Faleel.

I didn't think it was necessary, but some of these clips now make me wish we had a DoS CR (as unlikely as it is).

[Jay 41,553]

Why would you possibly think a DOS CR is unlikely? Of course it will happen!

[MedigoScan 341]

they could at least do a LOTR Rarities release down the line

allthough AUJ really needs a lot more than DOS

[Jay 41,553]

Well, obviously.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,310]

We've been through this before Jason

We're likely going to get some kind of "Rarities Archive" kind of release, which compiles the major unreleased material into one disc. Or maybe future releases with some additional unreleased material. But considering how definitive the expanded releases have already been, its unlikely we're going to be getting any CRs, or at least CRs as we know them.

[Jay 41,553]

I think you're wrong!

I expect CRs starting in 2015, and a book/Rarities disc to follow.

WB likes making money!

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

That could change. ("Potter is so close I can almost taste it")

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

Yeah, it could be that if you take his post out of context.

[Jay 41,553]

The Elven Gate (Possibly Tracked)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stt7r2wIE50

This is the complete ending of the cue I call "Go Now", which was snipped out of the end of the album track ("The House Of Beorn").

The Woodland Realm (Complete?)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9aWF4Q3dGTkhiaUU/edit?usp=sharing

Smaug (Film Version)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9WHl0TF9KbDQyNHc/edit?usp=sharing

Protector of the Common Folk (Complete)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9TzNudDFnc0llXzg/edit?usp=sharing

Like This?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9T2d1ZDdMYTVPaW8/edit?usp=sharing

Not At Home:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UE1PbGtaU2ZtN1U/edit?usp=sharing

I get "Unable to process this video." for all of the above

[Jay 41,553]

Wilderland (Film Version/Partially Unused Insert)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9b2lrSl9pX2hsTkE/edit?usp=sharing

Sounds good! It's missing the "No Chance Meeting" music at the beginning though (of course, that could always be presented as a separate track). Also, not sure why you named this this way - isn't this just the album track, with micro-edited out material restored?

Anyways, I do prefer the longer, more drawn-out film version of this track to the shorter, more rushed album version.

The House of Beorn:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9NllkQ1lxSkpUSEk/edit?usp=sharing

Sounds good, though it's missing the "Elven Gate" music at the end (though you have presented it separately, which works too)

The High Fells (Film Version):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9VGotMFV5bXJwaEk/edit?usp=sharing

Sounds good, though the very end (the return to the solo vocalist), you can just take from the album track. That part wasn't recorded twice, the insert ends before that.

You know, I still can't decide if I prefer the quieter film version, or louder album version of this music.

Tauriel's Decision and Athelas:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9eWdWU0hwV0MtbEU/edit?usp=sharing

Sounds good, but the cue doesn't end here, it keeps going through the Bilbo/Thorin conversation and back to the Tauriel Healing Kili sequence - that's all one single cue.

If This Should End In Fire:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9SE1XUGJsZ1BJTmM/edit?usp=sharing

This sounds good, but isn't accurate to cue separation. Where you start this track is in the middle of a single cue that begins with the music for the company crossing the bridge with Smaug above them, and ends with the "She Walks in Starlight" conversation. At 1:27 in your video is the start of a new cue, a cue I call "Thorin's Plan / Legolas Vs Bolg".

Obviously, you can choose to separate music in your personal edit wherever you want, just letting you know how it was originally written/recorded.

My Claws Are Spears (Unreleased)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9eFhKWjRGS1Y3Q0E/edit?usp=sharing

0:00-0:35ish of this is from a completely unreleased cue I call "The Well" (it plays when Thorin and Smaug go down and back up the well).

The rest of this is music from the cue I call "The Forges", which is the cue that appears in the OST track "My Armor Is Iron" from 0:00-2:31. This is music microedited out of that cue.

My Armor Is Iron:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UTlfbVUzOXdfWm8/edit?usp=sharing

As mentioned before, some of the music you put in the above track is actually snipped out of this track (though it's hard to piece it all together). Anyways, I listened to this whole track and didn't notice anything different than the album version?

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

The High Fells (Film Version):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9VGotMFV5bXJwaEk/edit?usp=sharing

Sounds good, though the very end (the return to the solo vocalist), you can just take from the album track. That part wasn't recorded twice, the insert ends before that.

There is extra choir in the high fells, underneath the soloist.

[Jay 41,553]

There is extra choir in the high fells, underneath the soloist.

Ah, I hadn't noticed that!

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

The album version of Wilderland sounds like an alternate version to me.

there is a bit in the middle that was unreleased. (the rising bit)

[Jay 41,553]

The album version of Wilderland sounds like an alternate version to me.

What timestamp specifically?

[Meredith McKay 7,479]

0:42 - 0:45

The way it goes into Beorns theme is different.

[MedigoScan 341]

My Armor Is Iron:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UTlfbVUzOXdfWm8/edit?usp=sharing

As mentioned before, some of the music you put in the above track is actually snipped out of this track (though it's hard to piece it all together). Anyways, I listened to this whole track and didn't notice anything different than the album version?

I can actually only place 1 bit of 'My Armor is Iron' in the 'My Claws are Spears' track and thats the bit around 1:15-1:30 (which sounds similar to 0:39-0:49 on the album track)

everything else in 'My Claws are Spears' is entirely new material I think

Also My Armor is Iron used replaces the music at 3:05-3:22 on the albumtrack with something new (which corresponds with the scene where Smaug boats about being King under the Mountain)

also I still swear the bit at 0:55-1:10 is extended in the movie

Oh and 'Inside Information' was different in the movie too, as I mentioned before

[Jay 41,553]

I know that other stuff is unreleased, i was saying it was microedited out My Armor Is Iron, not that it was in the album track (or a cue that takes place before it)

As for Inside Information, in the film the cue is partially dialed out, shortened, and re-edited, and also part of the middle is replaced by music tracked in from My Armor Is Iron

[MedigoScan 341]

oh yeah that makes more sense

My Armor Is Iron in the movie is all over the place anyway (which they had kept some bits in if that was the case)

and I swear that new bit in Inside Information sounded ever so different from the My Armor Is Iron bit (I know which one you mean though), just always stood out so much because the movie and album track were pretty aligned up until that insert

[Jay 41,553]

I'd have to listen again to see if it's 100% identical to the album performance of Smaug's theme there or not

[Jay 41,553]

There is extra choir in the high fells, underneath the soloist.

Ah, I hadn't noticed that!

Finally home and listening to your stuff with headphones. Damn, that extra choir under the solo line is great! Too bad there's so much wind effects over it!

Like This?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9T2d1ZDdMYTVPaW8/edit?usp=sharing

No. The music you have at 0:45 comes AFTER the "Undoubtedly A Trap" bit. Basically, the first thing you hear after the "Undoubtedly A Trap" bit should be the opening of the STANDARD version of Spell of Concealment. For the SE version of that track, they crossfaded that opening over a portion of the previous cue, making it very hard to end that bit cleanly. Maybe phase inversion can help?

Not At Home:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UE1PbGtaU2ZtN1U/edit?usp=sharing

Well, this reflects post-scoring editorial shuffling of scenes around, not the order Shore ever intended these pieces to play. Maybe that's your intention, but just thought you should know.