Complete Cue List: Memoirs of a Geisha

[filmmusic 2,226]

not definitely. if you see that cue it's just very sparse.. basically almost blank bars..

So, maybe it's that portion in the track.

I'll check later how it maches with the film version..

[Jay 39,595]

Hmmm, could 3:04 to end of Track 7 be some completely different cue then?

[filmmusic 2,226]

ok, i just checked!!

it's definitely NOT 1m3!

1m3 matches the film and it's evident.

So, i don't know what it is. maybe it's a bit from the rooftops cues where she goes to meet her sister?

i'll check later.

although those cues haven't been used in the film. they were substituted with something entirely tonal.

i will have to check with the score cues..

[Jay 39,595]

I think the most likely candidates for 3:04 to end of Track 7 would be these cues:

1M5 Where's My Sister (Flute Version)

1M5 Alt Where's My Sister

1M6 In Hatsumomo's Room

2M2 Staining the Kimono

2M4 A House Called Tatsuyo

2M7 Finding Tatsu

3M2 Letters From Home

Anybody besides the K man willing to help us out here? Joe? Bernard? Colin? Nemesis?

[filmmusic 2,226]

SUCCESS!!!!

I found it!

it's 2M2B!

now you can update all the cues.

Also if you'd like to correct the cd tracks in the Cue list/Ost (meaning add track 15, and correct the remaining tracks [17 to 18, 16 to 17 etc.])

By the way: what a magnificent score! How did it lost to Brokeback mountain? were they deaf?

[Jay 39,595]

So it's 2M2B Approaching Mameha and NOT 2M2B New?

Also, Joe claimed earlier that 0:11 to 0:25 of track 4 contained 2M2B New. Was he wrong?

[filmmusic 2,226]

yeah, it's Approaching Mameha!

no, he wasn't wrong

actually 2m2B in the film is in the end on top of the other track that is compiled by the 2m2New cues ..

[Jay 39,595]

Weird that he would but the original version of that cue in track 7, and the revised version in track 4! For every other cue in the film that had revised versions, he only chose one version to put on the OST

[filmmusic 2,226]

no.it's not 2 versions.it's one cue (actually its duration is some seconds) on top of the end of the other. they overlap

[Jay 39,595]

So are you saying that the most likely scenario is:

-Originally for that part of the film the only cues were 2M2 Staining the Kimono (Unreleased) and 2M2B Approaching Mameha (Track 7 3:04-end)

-Then it was decided to add more music to the scene, so 2M2A New Teasing, 2M2B New and 2M2C New (all combined as track 4) were written to go on top of 2M2B Approaching Mameha?

EDIT: Just read your edited post - so 2M2B (original) plays BEFORE 2M2A/B/C New? Is that what you're saying?

Also, does anybody else find it weird that OST Track 7 "Finding Satu" doesn't contain cue 2M7 Finding Tatsu in it?

[filmmusic 2,226]

2m2 is not used in the film.

in the same scene (staining the kimono) he puts a bit of 2m2BNew + 2m2Cnew (probably complete), and before that ends, he puts on top 2m2B approaching Mameha!

I don't know what came first . I mean I don't know if he had 2m2B originally and he added then the others (the new ones), or if he had the others and he added 2M2B afterwards.

but probably it was like you said (judging from the names).

originally 2m2 + 2m2B and then he discarded the first, and added the New ones.

[Jay 39,595]

The word "New" in the sketch would mean it came after the originals

Also, the placement of the cues in the film doesn't necessarily mean that was where Williams intended them to go...

Wow, this is a tricky one!

[filmmusic 2,226]

actually many cues in the film, aren't like in the score or cd..

most notably the handkerchief scene..

i wish though that that modernistic 3m1New had been used !

Also, does anybody else find it weird that OST Track 7 "Finding Satu" doesn't contain cue 2M7 Finding Tatsu in it?

yes, that's weird. 2m7 IS used in the film

Oh, i wish every Williams cd that we had, came with the original cue titles in chronological order (not edited, not cut, not joined, not renamed)

[Jay 39,595]

I figured it out! I looked at the sketches again and saw that what I had been calling "2M2A New" is actually written as "2M2 New A"... So I think what happened is this:

Originally, for the kimono staining scene, Williams wrote the cue "2M2 Staining the Kimono". However, it was rejected (possibly before it was ever recorded, who knows), and replaced by THREE new cues: 2M2 New A Teasing, 2M2 New B, and 2M2 New C.... However! He only wrote 2M2 New A on the sketch properly, for the other two he accidentally wrote 2M2B New and 2MBC New respecitively, instead of writing 2M2 New B and 2M2 New C like he should have!

2M2B Approaching Mameha is unrelated to all those, and is just the cue for the next scene in the film.

This explains everything perfectly - including why all the 2M2 News are combined together in one OST track, and 2M2B is in a different OST track.

Boom!

[filmmusic 2,226]

(and it's Approaching MameHa)

Someone should record with his Koto the original 2m2!

[Jay 39,595]

So does this seem accurate to everyone?

01 Sayuri's Theme (01:31)

• 1M2A New The Story

02 The Journey to the Hanamachi (4:06)

• [0:00-1:58] = 1M1 Alt The Opening
• [1:58-end] = Theme

03 Going to School (02:42)

• 1M7 New Off to School [added percussion]

04 Brush on Silk (02:31)

• [0:00-0:14] = 2M2 New A Teasing
• [0:14-0:25] = 2M2 New B
• [0:25-end] = 2M2 New C

05 Chiyo's Prayer (03:36)

• 3M4 Chio's Prayer

06 Becoming a Geisha (04:52)

• 4M2 Mameha's Instruction [micro edit for about 6 bars of the percussion soli]

07 Finding Satu (03:44)

• [0:00-1:43] = 3M5 Enter Mamao
• [1:43-3:04] = 1M5A The Roofs of Hanachi
• [3:04-end] = 2M2B Approaching Mameha

08 The Chairman's Waltz (02:39)

• Chairman's Waltz (Full Version) [recording bars 29- 32 do not match music, bars 79-114 cut]

09 The Rooftops of the Hanamachi (03:49)

• 3M1 New On the Roof [not sure at this time whether it includes 3M1 New Insert as well]

10 The Garden Meeting (02:44)

• [0:00-1:39] = 7M5 Preparing for the Reunion
• [1:39-end] = 5M8 The Cherry Garden [bar 4-end]

11 Dr. Crab's Prize (02:18)

• 6M3 Alt

12 Destiny's Path (03:20)

• 7M7 We Have No Choice [possibly some micro edits]

13 A New Name... A New Life (03:33)

• 4M3 A New Name...A New Life

14 The Fire Scene and the Coming of War (06:48)

• [0:00-3:21] = 6M4 The Fire Scene
• [3:21- end] = 6M5A The War Comes

15 As the Water... (02:01)

• 6M5B After the War

16 Confluence (03:42)

• 8M3 New Coming Together

17 A Dream Discarded (02:00)

• 8M1C Revised The Hankerchief Scene

18 Sayuri's Theme and End Credits (05:06)

• Sayuri's Theme

[filmmusic 2,226]

I haven't personally checked ALL the other cues that were already identified, but it seems right.

perhaps someone else can agree too (or disagree)

[Jay 39,595]

And how's this look for a revised cue list??

01 1M1 Alt The Opening - 02A The Journey to the Hanamachi [0:00-1:58] (1:58)
02A 1M2A The Story
02B 1M2A Rev The Story
02C 1M2A New - 01 Sayuri's Theme (1:31)
03 1M3 Atmospheres
04A 1M5 Where's My Sister? (Flute Version)
04B 1M5 Alt Where's My Sister?
05 1M5A The Roofs of Hanachi - 07B Finding Satu [1:43-3:04] (1:21)
06 1M6 In Hatsumomo's Room
07A 1M7 Off to School
07B 1M7 New Off to School - 03 Going to School (2:42)
08A 2M2 Staining the Kimono
08B-1 2M2A New Teasing - 04A Brush on Silk [0:00-0:14] (0:14)
08B-2 2M2B New - 04B Brush on Silk [0:14-0:25] (0:11)
08B-3 2M2C New - 04C Brush on Silk [0:25-end] (2:06)
09 2M2B Approaching Mameha - 07C Finding Satu [3:04-end] (0:40)

10 2M4 A House Called Tatsuyo
11 2M7 Finding Tatsu
12A 3M1 On the Roof
12B 3M1 New On the Roof - 09 The Rooftops of the Hanamachi (3:49)
12C 3M1 New Insert
13 3M2 Letters From Home
14A 3M3 The Chairman's Waltz
14B 3M3X The Chairman's Waltz (Longer Version)
15 3M4 Chio's Prayer - 05 Chiyo's Prayer (3:36)
16 3M5 Enter Mamao - 07A Finding Satu [0:00-1:43] (1:43)
17 4M1 A Fresh Start
18 4M2 Mameha's Instruction - 06 Becoming a Geisha (4:52)
19 4M3 A New Name...A New Life - 13 A New Name... A New Life (3:33)
20 4M6 Trip to the Sumo Match
21 5M1 Hatching Plans
22 5M3A The Doctor Won't See You
23 5M4 Do You Like Someone Else
24 5M8 The Cherry Garden - 10B The Garden Meeting [1:39-end] (1:05)
25 5M9 Discussing Nobu
26 6M1 Alt
27 6M2 Celebrate This Moment
28 6M3 Alt - 11 Dr. Crab's Prize (2:18)
29 6M4 The Fire Scene - 14A The Fire Scene [0:00-3:21] (3:21)
30 6M5A The War Comes - 14B The Coming of War [3:21-end] (3:27)
31A 6M5B After the War - 15 As the Water... (2:01)
31B 6M5B After the War (Violin and Cello Version)
32 7M1A
33 7M5 Preparing for the Reunion - 10A The Garden Meeting [0:00-1:39] (1:39)
34A 7M7 Beg Nobu's Plea
34B 7M7 We Have No Choice - 12 Destiny's Path (3:20)
35A 8M1 The Handkerchief Scene (Flute Version)
35B 8M1 Rev The Handkerchief Scene
35C 8M1C Handkerchief Scene
36D 8M1C Revised The Handkerchief Scene - 17 A Dream Discarded (2:00)
37A 8M2 Entering the Garden (Flute Version)
37B 8M2C Entering the Garden (Cello Version)
38A 8M3 Confluence
38B 8M3 Rev Confluence
38C 8M3 New Coming Together - 16 Confluence (3:42)
39 8M4 The Chairman's Waltz

40 Sayuri's Theme - 18 Sayuri's Theme and End Credits (5:06)

Bonus theme arrangements:
Brush on Silk
Chairman's Waltz (Full Version) - 08 The Chairman's Waltz (2:39)
Chairman's Waltz (Violin Variations)
Theme - 02B The Journey to the Hanamachi [1:58-end] (2:08)

[filmmusic 2,226]

I have one slight addition.

track 15 is 6m5B as we said, but its second part (0.52- end) better matches with 6m5B (vln & Vc version) (bars 19-end) (in 6m5B this section is scored for 2 oboes and omits some lines of one voice in the last bars! - I can't imagine how that would sound! I think it would be too harsh and not so fragile as it is now).

by the way, i would call this the Loneliness theme.

It appears only 2 times in the film.

First time (4m1), we hear only its A section, Hatchumomo says to Pumkin not to talk to Sayuri, because they are rivals, and Sayuri is left alone (and we hear the theme then),

and 2nd time which we hear both sections, it's after the war as the years pass and she's alone working...

what a great theme. Especially this B section between the vln and cello!

Does anyone know if the Chairman's Waltz violin variations is recorded in any of the suites?

[Jay 39,595]

Thanks for the info on 6M5B!

Oh hey! Is OST track 3 definitely 1M7 Off to School and NOT 1M7 New Off to School??

Also: 2M2 New A through 2M2 New C were combined into one OST track that he titled "Brush On Silk". What relation does this music have to the sketch entitled "Brush On Silk?

BTW, I put together this list of cues that don't appear on the OST in any form (IE, this list does not include alternate versions of cues where we have a different version on the OST)

1M3 Atmospheres

1M5 Where's My Sister?

1M6 In Hatsumomo's Room

2M4 A House Called Tatsuyo
2M7 Finding Tatsu

3M2 Letters From Home

4M1 A Fresh Start

4M6 Trip to the Sumo Match
5M1 Hatching Plans
5M3A The Doctor Won't See You
5M4 Do You Like Someone Else

5M9 Discussing Nobu
6M1 Alt

6M2 Celebrate This Moment

7M1A

8M2 Entering the Garden

That's a lot of music before we ever get to the alternates! The recording sessions need to leak or an expanded score release needs to happen!

[Incanus 5,816]

Yes definitely!

[filmmusic 2,226]

not to mention some film versions, that i don't think were tracked from other cues. i couldn't find them in the score, so they were definitely other alternates. eg the film version of Letters From Home must be an alternate.

By the way, some of those cues you mentioned don't appear in the film, so maybe they weren't recorded at all.

in reply to Brush on Silk on sketch: that is a different cue. I haven't heard it anywhere. maybe it's included in the suite? As i see it has celesta, harp, marimba, koto and some percussion.

(edit: i heard the suite version. it's not that either)

about track 3: it's definitely 1m7 new [added percussion], as you wrote in previous post.

[Joe Brausam 221]

Wow, I missed a lot! I would love to help, this is a fun score to study, but I've had zero free time these past few weeks because of gigs. Nice work K!

[Lewya 360]

Does anyone here know what this music is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FxLM3AQt4

[Lewya 360]

Bump. Does anyone know what it is?

[Taikomochi 1,249]

IIRC, the scene combines several pieces of traditional Japanese music into a single source piece.  Here is a list of the various pieces used in the film.  I believe the ones that say they are performed by Ensemble Nipponia are what you are looking for.  I used to have those recordings, but I don't think so anymore.

[Lewya 360]

Ok! Thanks.

[filmmusic 2,226]

Just an update in this:

track 9 is:

0.00-2.43  3M1 New (without insert)

2.43-end  3M1 bars 50-end

I don't understand why I hadn't noticed earlier.

 

I've seen this 3-4 times where Williams puts in an album track the original and the new cue together.

 

(A.I., Always and Munich i think)

 

Also i hadn't noticed that track 11 is a traditional piece and not composed by Williams.

[pete 990]

57 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

Also i hadn't noticed that track 11 is a traditional piece and not composed by Williams.

 

Do you mean Dr Crab's Prize from the OST? 

[filmmusic 2,226]

2 minutes ago, pete said:

 

Do you mean Dr Crab's Prize from the OST? 

Yes

[pete 990]

Are you sure? I just checked out the CD booklet, and there’s no mention 

[filmmusic 2,226]

2 minutes ago, pete said:

Are you sure? I just checked out the CD booklet, and there’s no mention 

yes, I checked it too but:

 

In the original sketches by the composer, in every cue he writes his name on the top right corner.

"John Williams

BMI"

In this cue, instead of his name it says:

"TRAD. JAPAN"

[pete 990]

Oh thanks. That’s interesting. I just gave it a listen for the first time in years. Tempted now to remove it from my iPhone^

[filmmusic 2,226]

I was trying to figure out the handkerchief scene music cue in the film, in case anyone is interested.

It isn't any of the 4 cues.

So, unless there is a 8m1B that we don't know about it's:

1m2A rev (bars 1-8)

1m2A new (b. 3-11) (erhu for the solo line instead of cello which was in the beginning of the film)

theme (b. 13-end)

[Disco Stu 15,501]

Does anyone have handy which specific Memoirs cues were recorded at UCLA Royce Hall?

[Disco Stu 15,501]

I'll take that as a "No" 

[Smeltington 1,583]

It seems likely that info has never been released, though it was never on my radar in the first place, so who knows. If not, I would guess it was only used for recording the two soloists, and maybe any pieces performed by a small ensemble. Some of the "ethnic" textures that complement the orchestra. One would assume that Sony Pictures Studios was used for typical full orchestral score material.

 

I did find this, where Williams mentions recording Ma and Perlman there:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/gperf/john-williams-great-performances-theme-song-and-interview/4075/

 

Quote

John Williams: Well, my first great memory of Royce Hall is the fact that I attended a concert, one or two or three here, where Stravinsky conducted, and I remember seeing him in this room on this stage, conducting and performing…And then we have recorded in here. Some film scores with Steven Spielberg. We recorded A.I., a few years ago and Memoirs of a Geisha. We recorded here with our great soloists Yo-Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman. So, I remember [Royce Hall] not only [as] a place where I’ve had great memories and connections with my early days, but more recent days of working in the room and loving the sound of the room.

 

[Doo_liss 6,507]

Its not like he couldn't record typical full orchestra stuff there though, I believe one of the recent albums or something was recorded there (Spielberg Williams III? Adventures of Han)?

[Smeltington 1,583]

I'm sure you're right. That's just my only theory on why they'd use both venues - that maybe Royce was used for something more specialized. I suppose there could be other reasons of convenience. But these are both in LA anyway, aren't they? I guess someone involved with Royce Hall or one of Williams' projects there would have to comment for us to really know.

[crumbs 14,891]

4 hours ago, Spider-Fal said:

I believe one of the recent albums or something was recorded there (Spielberg Williams III?

 

Yep, that one.

[crumbs 14,891]

On 4/2/2018 at 11:33 AM, filmmusic said:

I was trying to figure out the handkerchief scene music cue in the film, in case anyone is interested.

It isn't any of the 4 cues.

So, unless there is a 8m1B that we don't know about it's:

1m2A rev (bars 1-8)

1m2A new (b. 3-11) (erhu for the solo line instead of cello which was in the beginning of the film)

theme (b. 13-end)

 

This is fascinating because, after watching the film, I specifically came looking for answers on why that cue was missing from the OST.

 

Much to my surprise Williams wrote 4 versions for that scene and, according to your post, none were used! Except one of the versions was included on the OST, T17 A Dream Discarded.

 

BTW, anyone have an explanation for missing cue numbers 5M5, 5M6, 5M7? The movie is filled with music between 5M4 and 5M8, so I can only assume all 3 cues were traditional Japanese pieces and thus (as source music) not assigned cue numbers?