Media Ventures - Remote Control

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Usually sticking to the Trading Posts only, I'm delving into the General Discussion forums!!

After reading some of the posts, it seems I'm the only person on this site that actually supports Zimmer and his team of composers. I can also proudly say that I physically own every single released score by a MV-RC composer, except Fools Of Fortune and New Music In Films.

Instead of me presenting specifics, I'll allow my fellow JW fans to post their opinions of Hans Zimmer and Friends.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

and see sig.

[Jacob 0]

[Koray Savas 2,251]

No way am I implying that MV is better. John Williams will always be #1. I just support the new technologies Zimmer has brought into film scores.

I'm glad he's successfully brought Harry Gregson-Williams and John Powell into their own styles. Usually the student of Zimmer heavily relys on his sound. I am a huge fan of Powell and love what he can do, whether it's animation or action.

[John Crichton 4]

Haven't we spent like 50 threads on this in the last year? More than the topic deserves.

Koray, it's great that you want to join us in discussion, please stay and do, but most of us are right sick of this topic.

[Trent B 337]

Haven't we spent like 50 threads on this in the last year? More than the topic deserves.

Koray, it's great that you want to join us in discussion, please stay and do, but most of us are right sick of this topic.

Indeed...

[Datameister 2,044]

Koray, it's great that you want to join us in discussion, please stay and do, but most of us are right sick of this topic.

Agreed 100%. You'll find that this particular topic tends to elicit rather vitriolic responses in most of this board's populace, unfortunately. Looking around through old threads should make it perfectly clear how many of this forum's denizens feel.

Me personally--I don't dismiss MV music just because it's MV music. I'm quick to acknowledge that a lot of it is highly derivative, simplistically written, over-reliant on unnecessary synths, and/or just plain tiresome to listen to. Nevertheless, I enjoy some of it when it doesn't come across this way...and I enjoy some of it despite the flaws. Drop Zone and the first Pirates are two examples of MV scores about which I have many artistic reservations, but manage to enjoy nevertheless. It's okay to like listening to MV music. It doesn't indicate (or induce) stupidity. It's good, however, to be able to distinguish between so-called guilty pleasures and material that displays more creativity, originality, and intelligence, such as (IMHO) John Williams' work.

Better don that kevlar suit you've got hanging in your closet, Koray, and put on your Backdraft CD. There's about to be a lot of flaming.

[indy4 155]

Usually sticking to the Trading Posts only, I'm delving into the General Discussion forums!!

After reading some of the posts, it seems I'm the only person on this site that actually supports Zimmer and his team of composers. I can also proudly say that I physically own every single released score by a MV-RC composer, except Fools Of Fortune and New Music In Films.

Instead of me presenting specifics, I'll allow my fellow JW fans to post their opinions of Hans Zimmer and Friends.

I think Zimmer is a magnificent composer!! While not nearly as good as JW, he has talent, and many of his scores are very enjoyable to listen to. Some great cues that come to mind: Up is Down, What Shall We Die For, Drink Up Me Hearties, This Land, King of Pride Rock, Chevalier de Sangreal, Jack Sparrow, Mission Accomplished, and many more. I was curious if anybody knows how much of POTC: At World's End was written by Zimmer, and how much by his "team". Are all his scores written partially by his team?

And was John Powell, Klaus Badelt, and Gregson-Williams all Zimmer's student??

[Datameister 2,044]

And was John Powell, Klaus Badelt, and Gregson-Williams all Zimmer's student??

Yes, they were/are.

I was curious if anybody knows how much of POTC: At World's End was written by Zimmer, and how much by his "team". Are all his scores written partially by his team?

I don't know how much was written by his cronies. He often describes the process like this: he writes major themes and major setpieces, with some of the transitional elements and orchestration and programming and last-minute composing done by his team. His is a very collaborative mindset, which is cool, in a way, but this approach can also lead to overhomogenizing of a whole generation of composers, which is not cool. To my knowledge, most or all of his scores feature at least a little of this collaboration. Some albums specifically credit certain tracks to certain undercomposers, such as Drop Zone with Glennie-Smith's "Flashback and Fries."

[Jacob 0]

No way am I implying that MV is better. John Williams will always be #1. I just support the new technologies Zimmer has brought into film scores.

I was just joking around.

In fact, I'm certain that I enjoy Zimmer's style more than most here. Sometimes a good electronic power anthem is just what the doctor ordered.

I enjoy his Pirates scores, The Rock, Gladiator, Lion King and others. But being a relative newcomer to the film score scene and having a lot to catch up on, the more I hear him the more I see how repetitive some of his work is.

But I have yet to break into his light comedy scores, which some recommend as his best work.

[QMM 4]

But I have yet to break into his light comedy scores, which some recommend as his best work.

They are, as well as Hannibal and The Da Vinci Code

[ChuckM 1]

I don't view MV as particularly good or bad as a whole. There are a lot of really good scores from them, and some not so great ones, just like with pretty much any composer.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Jack Sparrow

Personally, I find this piece of music quite retarded. Especially the first minue and the last.

[Morlock 11]

What does that mean?

[gkgyver 1,645]

There's nothing like a good old, senseless Zimmer-bashfest.

If random praises of Williams' glory ae allowed, I suppose some random attacks at Zimmer are, too.

[Morlock 11]

That I understand- but to call it retarded? That just doesn't make sense. Call it terrible, immature, unoriginal, wrong, the bane of good film music....calling it retarded just doesn't mean anything.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Yeah, well, the style of writing is retarded ... and Hans Zimmer's believe that it's actually nice to listen to.

[Morlock 11]

It is. Extremely enojyable. And right for the film.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Me personally--I don't dismiss MV music just because it's MV music. I'm quick to acknowledge that a lot of it is highly derivative, simplistically written, over-reliant on unnecessary synths, and/or just plain tiresome to listen to. Nevertheless, I enjoy some of it when it doesn't come across this way...and I enjoy some of it despite the flaws. ...It's okay to like listening to MV music. It doesn't indicate (or induce) stupidity. It's good, however, to be able to distinguish between so-called guilty pleasures and material that displays more creativity, originality, and intelligence, such as (IMHO) John Williams' work.

Well said.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morlock 11]

Overall, I agree. While I do like and appreciate a lot of Zimmer's scores, I certainly acknowledge that they are not cut of the same cloth as Williams or Goldsmith. They appeal to me on a different level.

[vmw331 2]

But I have yet to break into his light comedy scores, which some recommend as his best work.

They are, as well as Hannibal and The Da Vinci Code

While watching the Da Vinci Code, I hardly recognized any worthwhile music. When I tried hard to listen to what was going on musically, most of the time I would hear one long, sustained note. I think that movie could have used a more energetic and moody score from Zimmer. He failed to do anything substantial on that movie.

I haven't listened to the score away from the film, but I'm sure it will still sound like crap.

I enjoy some of Zimmer's energetic scores- PotC, Lion King, Pearl Harbor, but many of his action cues are recycled and it just starts sounding terrible.

[Morlock 11]

A more energetic and moody score for Da Vinci Code? What does that even mean? The score was moody as hell, over-wrought with it (like the movie). It is one of the few worthwhile things to come of the movie.

[vmw331 2]

Yeah you're right on the "moody" part....it was very moody (one long sustained note)!

I guess I just meant that he could have made it more interesting.

It was still crap though, ya gotta agree on that!!

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Me personally--I don't dismiss MV music just because it's MV music. I'm quick to acknowledge that a lot of it is highly derivative, simplistically written, over-reliant on unnecessary synths, and/or just plain tiresome to listen to. Nevertheless, I enjoy some of it when it doesn't come across this way...and I enjoy some of it despite the flaws. ...It's okay to like listening to MV music. It doesn't indicate (or induce) stupidity. It's good, however, to be able to distinguish between so-called guilty pleasures and material that displays more creativity, originality, and intelligence, such as (IMHO) John Williams' work.

Well said.

Ray Barnsbury

I concur.

I wasn't exactly over the moon when I heard about the upcoming Transformers score release, but I'm now looking forward to it - what I heard in the film was nothing special, but it wasn't bad music.

Plus I got the new Prison Break promo - and some of my favourite tracks are straight out of MV, but who cares? Guilty pleasure

[Morlock 11]

Yeah you're right on the "moody" part....it was very moody (one long sustained note)!

I guess I just meant that he could have made it more interesting.

It was still crap though, ya gotta agree on that!!

Obviously I don't. It's a case of a good score for a bad movie. And a terrific album.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Da Vinci Code is a very mature score from Zimmer IMO; a nice album to put on.

I wouldn't be able to judge how it works in the movie becuase I completely lost interest about 10 minutes in when I caught it on sky

[vmw331 2]

As I said, I haven't listened to the OST of the Da Vinci Code yet. A much better score for this movie would have made this film better I think. If the album is better than what the score did for the movie, than Mr. Zimmer's got it backwards. I really couldn't care how it sounds on CD. The point is that it was "background music" and the music didn't work the way its supposed to work in film.

......All of a sudden you've got me very interested in the score for this movie. I'll listen to it tonight....maybe it will help me fall asleep

[Morlock 11]

I think it worked well in the movie. The director wanted a score that took the trashy material as the word of god. Zimmer delivered, and the score works very well in the film. Even the climactic orchestra as synth cue works wonders.

[King Mark 3,631]

I have no MV or similar scores in my collection and it will stay that way.

[vmw331 2]

Hey Morlock,

Let's agree that when comparing Zimmer's work to JW's work, Williams just destroys everything Zimmer has done because of the quality of work that Williams produces. Williams wakes up every morning and wipes his ass with the score to Da Vinci.

......yeah, I think we agree on that

BTW, Zimmer still sucks, although I do like some of the things done by MV composers like Badelt and Gregson-Williams!!!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Lots of hatred towards Zimmer here.

Some of his music is bad, most is repetative (and I hate that!), but overall it accomplishes what it sets out to do. No traditional composer composes music to action films, and when I say action, I mean action. The Rock, Pirates Of The Caribbean, Batman Begins, etc. are all pure action films and his music adds so much more to them. Another unique characteristic of Zimmer as that his music works on screen and off, which is something hard to do. You can take his cues out of context, place them somewhere else, and it will still work to its full potential. Try taking something by John Williams and using it somewhere else, it's identifiable right away and doesn't fit in.

[Datameister 2,044]

I have no MV or similar scores in my collection and it will stay that way.

If you're keeping it that way purely on principle, I think that's almost as dumb as my lifelong boycott of Quiznos Sub just because of those stupid Spongemonkeys commercials they used to air back in 2004.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Agreed Datameister, those commercials freaked me out... Oh, and agreed on the Zimmer comment as well

[Datameister 2,044]

Another unique characteristic of Zimmer as that his music works on screen and off, which is something hard to do. You can take his cues out of context, place them somewhere else, and it will still work to its full potential. Try taking something by John Williams and using it somewhere else, it's identifiable right away and doesn't fit in.

I'm not sure that's a positive attribute, though. All this would mean to me would be that John Williams is better at writing music that closely fits the scene it's written for, whereas Zimmer can only write generic music that would work in all sorts of contexts. I don't completely agree with your statement, though. Williams' major themes are widely recognized and can thus tend to not fit in outside their intended films, but most of his music is not as specific as you're saying it is. And on the topic of listening to scores outside of film context--Williams' scores generally show off more depth and more intelligence as you listen to them more and more on their own, while Zimmer's scores tend to be very disappointing in their simplicity when you take them out of context.

Anyway, remember that I listen to, enjoy, and even play Zimmer's music somewhat frequently. I just recognize a lot of his weaknesses.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Another unique characteristic of Zimmer as that his music works on screen and off, which is something hard to do. You can take his cues out of context, place them somewhere else, and it will still work to its full potential. Try taking something by John Williams and using it somewhere else, it's identifiable right away and doesn't fit in.

Are you saying this is a good characteristic of Zimmer's? A film score shouldn't be interchangeable, working equally well in multiple films because of its generic qualities; it should be specifically crafted to fit the film it's underscoring. That's why Zimmer's music (and the like) is used so often in movie trailers, and Williams' isn't. Williams' music is generally much more in tune with the varied and distinct natures of the films he scores.

EDIT: Oops, Datameister beat me to it!

Ray Barnsbury

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I have no MV or similar scores in my collection and it will stay that way.

What a narrow view of scores you have

So imagine the situation: if Zimmer composed a new score, and every person on this forum said how amazing it was, you would still have nothing to do with it because... it's Zimmer?

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Correct.

Ray Barnsbury

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I understand what you're saying. I don't recognize him as a talented composer, I find his music very enjoyable to listen to, same goes for the rest of the MV gang. Their scores have an addictive sound, I don't know if it's my love for classic rock that makes me listen to Zimmer, but I find it something I can listen to and not have to think. For the real talent I turn to John Williams, Ennio Morricone, and James Newton Howard.

In reference to his best works, there are two types of Hans Zimmer fans, those who like his light comedic scores, and those who like his action syth-heavy scores. I find myself in between. Here are what I believe to be his best works:

1) The Thin Red Line

2) The Lion King

3) Tears Of The Sun

4) The Da Vinci Code

5) Gladiator

EDIT: Looks like some people responded while I was typing, this was referenced to Datameister.

[ChuckM 1]

I thought that the Da Vinci Code score worked verry well in the film, but it's a little boring on it's own.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The Citrine Cross and CheValiers De Sangreal are the best tracks, in my opinion.

[Red 75]

Me personally--I don't dismiss MV music just because it's MV music. I'm quick to acknowledge that a lot of it is highly derivative, simplistically written, over-reliant on unnecessary synths, and/or just plain tiresome to listen to. Nevertheless, I enjoy some of it when it doesn't come across this way...and I enjoy some of it despite the flaws. ...It's okay to like listening to MV music. It doesn't indicate (or induce) stupidity. It's good, however, to be able to distinguish between so-called guilty pleasures and material that displays more creativity, originality, and intelligence, such as (IMHO) John Williams' work.

Well said.

Ray Barnsbury

Indeed.

[Neimoidian 14]

First of all we should distinguish between several aspects of what we think of when we say MV/RC - the scores (the final output of their work), their method of work (rock-groups-like, collaborative) and their love for electronics. There are probalby some more, which I cannot recall right now.

My personal feelings towards MV are on love-hate basis. While I despise with all my heart such things like "Con Air" and alike, I trully onjoy some other (even such out of the book like "Black Hawk Down"). While I don't care at all about people like Jablonsky, Rabin and some other less known, I can say I am very fond of many Zimmer's, Powell's and some Gregson-Williams' works. And so on and on...

[gkgyver 1,645]

Try taking something by John Williams and using it somewhere else, it's identifiable right away and doesn't fit in.

That's a pro in my book.

[bondo 33]

I think Zimmer's MV/RC studio has given many young artists the chance to make a name for themselves in Hollywood (Harry Gregson-Williams, John Powell, Klaus Badelt, Steve Jablonsky). Sure, they all start out doing "Additional Music," imitating Zimmer's style. But if you really pay attention and don't just look at the music on the surface, they each develop their own sound eventually. And contrary to once-popular belief, Zimmer seems to heartily give credit to each and every one of them.

[indy4 155]

Hans Zimmer is a great composer, who can really add to the film. I could undertstand why some of you might not like his music, but hate it? Honestly, his riveting action pieces, and even a few beautiful pieces (love theme from world's end, this land, Chevalier de Sangreal, etc...) His style is different, but he is still a great composer. Though maybe not as good as JW, I respect Zimmer deeply, and he is one of my favorite film compsers.

[Datameister 2,044]

Here are what I believe to be his best works:

1) The Thin Red Line

Really? I took a listen to that a few weeks ago, and most of struck me as droning and mindless. Perhaps I missed something...I was slightly distracted...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Alas the good thoughts roll in.

When I talk about MV I like to include all its aspects. The collaboration and the actual quality of the music. I think Hans as started a great studio that helps unknowns get a chance to show their real talent. Although most of the underdogs of Media Ventures tend to steal Zimmer's sound, that is not his goal, and that shows a lot about that composer. Harry Gregson-Williams and John Powell surpassed Zimmer in my opinion and developed their own styles that work to perfection. Klaus Badelt is starting out on his own and can do some passable work, although I don't like him that much. Others like Jablonsky, Mancina, and Glennie-Smith don't have their personal style down yet. I don't like to include Trevor Rabin as part of MV because, well, he isn't and never was. My brother met him at The Guardian premiere and had a nice chat with him.

EDIT: Datameister, Journey To Line is a very nice piece, the score is subtle yet powerful...my favorite.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Quite frankly, some of Zimmer's (not MV, but Zimmer) music has 5x times the visceral impact of John Williams or even Jerry Goldsmith's music.

Not to say he's better, but he has shown an incredible command of pulling emotional strings, be they making you pumped or sad, or ready for vengeance.

As for the more polarizing side of the issue: By the same token that bashers call those who enjoy Zimmer tards, I say those who don't feel invigorated at something like the Crimson Tide theme were probably neutered at an early age.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

As for the more polarizing side of the issue: By the same token that bashers call those who enjoy Zimmer tards, I say those who don't feel invigorated at something like the Crimson Tide theme were probably neutered at an early age.

Crimson Tide was worthy of Steven Spielberg, which is why every DreamWorks animated feature is scored by a Media Ventures composer.

[Alejandro 26]

As for the more polarizing side of the issue: By the same token that bashers call those who enjoy Zimmer tards, I say those who don't feel invigorated at something like the Crimson Tide theme were probably neutered at an early age.

Crimson Tide was worthy of Steven Spielberg, which is why every DreamWorks animated feature is scored by a Media Ventures composer.

Zimmer et. al. have done DreamWorks animated features because of Zimmer's longstanding relationship with JEFFREY KATZENBERG, stemming from Zimmer's score for Disney's The Lion King.

Spielberg (along with Parkes and McDonald) handled the feature films, mostly.

Geffen handled the music label.

Katzenberg handled Dreamworks Animation, which went public because Dreamworks needed quick revenue (they are separate from Paramount, which bought Dreamworks)