Composing Contest no.4!

[MSM 126]

It's been a while since the latest JWFan composing competition. I thought Indy 4 would be a nice inpiration for a new contest! The assignment would be:

compose a theme for the new movie Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull!

1) Is there someone who would like to moderate such a contest? There have to be a more accurate description as to the criteria for a submission and there has to be deadline. The compositions should be submitted to someone who would list them in a poll in which people can vote for the best theme, preferable someone who doesn't participate him or herself.

2) Are there already composers around who would be interesting in participating?

[Henry B 50]

Ah, I'd forgotten we used to have these contests. Sounds great. I will try to come up with an entry.

[David Vincent 8]

You can count me in !

[ChuckM 1]

I'll tentatively say that I'll give it a try, although it depends on if I have enough time.

What format should these be submitted in? Is it alright if I just do it as a MIDI?

[Frosty 0]

Need some parameters. Don't know the plot, therefore have no idea what to write.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Something Indiana Jones like, but crystaline, so featuring a celeste maybe, but it has to be monkey-like, so it needs to have strong percussion too.

[gkgyver 1,646]

The Crystal Skulls go deep into mythology and human failures, so some gravitas a la Close Encounters or the grail theme would be appropriate.

[Luke Skywalker 1,797]

Just compose a Soviet march, or a theme for Cate blanchett's character...

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,Williams got some practice with East Europeean in the Terminal

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

I'm not going to attend to this competition , just to give you other guys some chance.

[MSM 126]

One may come up with anything that could possibly be in the new movie. Write a theme for any of the old or new characters, an 'artefact' theme, an evil Russian theme, anything as long as it reflects the soul of the Indy movies.

Length should be between 1:00 and 4:00 minutes.

MIDI is fine, and maybe we should restrict to MIDI only to avoid discrepantions in sound quality.

I would like to compete in the competition myself too, so anyone out there who has time and expertise to moderate on this contest? Strongbad did the latest competitons but I haven't seen him around for a while.

[Datameister 2,047]

I dunno for sure if I'll come up with anything worth entering, but I'll at least give it a try. Kind of hard, considering we don't know much about the plot yet...but I guess we'll just have to try to come up with entries that sound Indyesque enough while evoking images of a crystalline skull becoming fat and dictatorial upon a throne.

[Henry B 50]

One may come up with anything that could possibly be in the new movie. Write a theme for any of the old or new characters, an 'artefact' theme, an evil Russian theme, anything as long as it reflects the soul of the Indy movies.

Length should be between 1:00 and 4:00 minutes.

MIDI is fine, and maybe we should restrict to MIDI only to avoid discrepantions in sound quality.

I would like to compete in the competition myself too, so anyone out there who has time and expertise to moderate on this contest? Strongbad did the latest competitons but I haven't seen him around for a while.

So, no Finale SmartSynths or Human Playback?

[MSM 126]

One may come up with anything that could possibly be in the new movie. Write a theme for any of the old or new characters, an 'artefact' theme, an evil Russian theme, anything as long as it reflects the soul of the Indy movies.

Length should be between 1:00 and 4:00 minutes.

MIDI is fine, and maybe we should restrict to MIDI only to avoid discrepantions in sound quality.

I would like to compete in the competition myself too, so anyone out there who has time and expertise to moderate on this contest? Strongbad did the latest competitons but I haven't seen him around for a while.

So, no Finale SmartSynths or Human Playback?

If it sounds good in these it would be ok in MIDI also. I think it's the fairest to use one standard if not all contestants have the same hardware and software. Could you agree?

[Datameister 2,047]

EDIT:

If it sounds good in these it would be ok in MIDI also.

Not entirely true. MIDI is very good at turning even the best compositions into apparent crap. BUT--

I think it's the fairest to use one standard if not all contestants have the same hardware and software.

Agreed. Unless it turns out everyone in the contest ends up using Finale... ::is very hopeful::

WE NOW RETURN TO THE ORIGINAL POST.

The other thing I'd like to touch on is the time restriction. I dunno about you guys, but I'd kind of like the freedom to submit something shorter than a minute. I mean, naturally, longer good entries will garner more respect than shorter good entries, and entries that expand upon and develop their themes will fare better than those that just state the theme and then stop. But it'd still be nice to have the freedom to go shorter, keeping those generalities in mind...

Also, when's the deadline gonna be?

- Datameister, who's a really slow composer

[Henry B 50]

One may come up with anything that could possibly be in the new movie. Write a theme for any of the old or new characters, an 'artefact' theme, an evil Russian theme, anything as long as it reflects the soul of the Indy movies.

Length should be between 1:00 and 4:00 minutes.

MIDI is fine, and maybe we should restrict to MIDI only to avoid discrepantions in sound quality.

I would like to compete in the competition myself too, so anyone out there who has time and expertise to moderate on this contest? Strongbad did the latest competitons but I haven't seen him around for a while.

So, no Finale SmartSynths or Human Playback?

If it sounds good in these it would be ok in MIDI also. I think it's the fairest to use one standard if not all contestants have the same hardware and software. Could you agree?

Sure.

[ChuckM 1]

Are we trying to compose this like what we think the movie will sound like, or what we want the movie to sound like?

[Delorean90 42]

I probably won't be entering this contest, but would it be feasible for someone to make their composition and, if they don't have any higher level composition software, maybe send it to someone who can redo it in Finale or something? Just a thought.

[Datameister 2,047]

Are we trying to compose this like what we think the movie will sound like, or what we want the movie to sound like?

Unless I'm very much mistaken, we'll be composing what we think the movie should sound like, with what little info we have.

I probably won't be entering this contest, but would it be feasible for someone to make their composition and, if they don't have any higher level composition software, maybe send it to someone who can redo it in Finale or something? Just a thought.

Actually, that's a REALLY good point. MIDI files can be easily imported into Finale and then saved as audio files, using SmartSynth and Human Playback. In fact, I'd be willing to do that for anyone who needs/wants it, if that's what'd be necessary to legalize Finale audio for this contest. I mean, no guarantees...it depends on how busy I am...but it's not a terribly difficult or time-consuming process in general.

[Datameister 2,047]

Also--am I right in thinking that we should aim not so much to emulate Williams as to produce a sincere sound that reflects what we think the movie will be like?

[Henry B 50]

I should hope so. Emulation is not composition.

[Datameister 2,047]

I should hope so. Emulation is not composition.

::resists urge to make MV comment::

Well, okay, emulation is composition...but it ignores the point of composition.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I'm glad this is being rejuvenated. I always enjoyed hearing what our JWFan composers came up with.

Ray Barnsbury

[pi 0]

most contain at least one boom tiss.

and should sound like indy jones.

[Jeshopk 8]

Well, here you can enter my Rattlesnake Jake theme.

http://www.rattlesnakejake.com/rattlesnake_jake_theme.mp3

Referring Page:

http://www.rattlesnakejake.com/news.htm

Disclaimer: He's a Cowboy, so it'd probably fail for Indiana Jones himself.

[Datameister 2,047]

What software/hardware did you use for that, Jesse? For synths, that's a pretty sound! Compositionally...I dunno, if I were listening to it on a big-budget flick, I'd probably be disappointed, but not because it's bad. There's nothing "wrong" with it, per se--for me, it lacks a certain intangible element that would make it really great. I'm one to talk, though, since I doubt I could do better in that musical vein. Anyway, nice work. ::listens again::

[Bowie 45]

Slight problem -- I sketched out and started composing a Love Theme within the first few hours of this topic being started... using Sibelius and VSL sound samples...

I would be heartbroken if I had to strip away the sounds to plain midi.

[Datameister 2,047]

Slight problem -- I sketched out and started composing a Love Theme within the first few hours of this topic being started... using Sibelius and VSL sound samples...I would be heartbroken if I had to strip away the sounds to plain midi.

You're a Sibelius user; your heartbrokenness matters not.

Anyway, yeah, I agree that it would be a pity to force everyone to use plain old MIDI just because a few of us might not have the technology. And as I said, I'd have no problem with taking others' MIDI files, importing them into Finale, and exporting audio files using SmartSynth.

[Jeshopk 8]

What software/hardware did you use for that, Jesse? For synths, that's a pretty sound! Compositionally...I dunno, if I were listening to it on a big-budget flick, I'd probably be disappointed, but not because it's bad. There's nothing "wrong" with it, per se--for me, it lacks a certain intangible element that would make it really great. I'm one to talk, though, since I doubt I could do better in that musical vein. Anyway, nice work. ::listens again::

I used Oveture 4 and a multitude of sample libraries. I customize my samples. Hopefully samples will never sound perfect or orchestras will be out of a job. Rattlesnake Jake is really meant to be a comedic or "light" version of Indy...and a Cowboy to boot. It gives up the seriousness of real Indy music for a kind of Elmer Bernstein comedy angle - but the nod to Raiders March is still there. It has to sort of match a cartoon feel. I'd like to do a real Indy track sometime, just as an etude in the style, but time doesn't allow it right now.

[MSM 126]

Also--am I right in thinking that we should aim not so much to emulate Williams as to produce a sincere sound that reflects what we think the movie will be like?

Both is possible!

Slight problem -- I sketched out and started composing a Love Theme within the first few hours of this topic being started... using Sibelius and VSL sound samples...I would be heartbroken if I had to strip away the sounds to plain midi.

You're a Sibelius user; your heartbrokenness matters not. ;)Anyway, yeah, I agree that it would be a pity to force everyone to use plain old MIDI just because a few of us might not have the technology. And as I said, I'd have no problem with taking others' MIDI files, importing them into Finale, and exporting audio files using SmartSynth.

Does that increase sound quality per se? It still depends on what audio card one uses.

What software/hardware did you use for that, Jesse? For synths, that's a pretty sound! Compositionally...I dunno, if I were listening to it on a big-budget flick, I'd probably be disappointed, but not because it's bad. There's nothing "wrong" with it, per se--for me, it lacks a certain intangible element that would make it really great. I'm one to talk, though, since I doubt I could do better in that musical vein. Anyway, nice work. ::listens again::

I used Oveture 4 and a multitude of sample libraries. I customize my samples. Hopefully samples will never sound perfect or orchestras will be out of a job. Rattlesnake Jake is really meant to be a comedic or "light" version of Indy...and a Cowboy to boot. It gives up the seriousness of real Indy music for a kind of Elmer Bernstein comedy angle - but the nod to Raiders March is still there. It has to sort of match a cartoon feel. I'd like to do a real Indy track sometime, just as an etude in the style, but time doesn't allow it right now.

Jeshhopk, that sounds really terrific. I think it suffices as an entry here. I think it'd be ok if people agree to submit their contributions to Datameister if they want better sound quality.

[Henry B 50]

So, wait. Finale stuff is allowed now? How about Garritan sounds or other samples?

[MSM 126]

So, wait. Finale stuff is allowed now? How about Garritan sounds or other samples?

No, samples are not allowed. Jeskhop already finished his contribution using samples, and I don't have a problem with that, but if other contributors have, then he should turn it into plain midi after all.

Deadline for contributions is Saturday October 27th 8:00 pm GMT.

There will be a new thread with a poll in where everybody can post his or her composition, and where can be voted.

[indy4 155]

You can turn old topics into polls. Just click "post reply," then click "manage this topic's poll", and even if it starts out normally, you can change it into a poll.

Well, here you can enter my Rattlesnake Jake theme.

http://www.rattlesnakejake.com/rattlesnake_jake_theme.mp3

Referring Page:

http://www.rattlesnakejake.com/news.htmDisclaimer: He's a Cowboy, so it'd probably fail for Indiana Jones himself.

Nice!

[Henry B 50]

October 20th? Okay, I hate to keep interjecting, but that only gives us ten days to work with (thirteen if you started composing as soon as speculation started). Haven't previous contests given entrants at least a month to complete their entries?

[ChuckM 1]

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Ten days isn't a whole lot of time.

[MSM 126]

The deadline has been postponed to October 27th 8:00 pm GMT.

I deliberately don't want to give too much time. The intention of this contest is not to compose symphonies, but themes that are more or less comparable at least regarding duration.

Good luck everyone!

And thanks to Indy4 for the "manage post" advice

[Datameister 2,047]

I dunno if I'll be entering or not...probably not, honestly. I've tried to come up with a few things, but they all seem too derivative. In any case, I'm really looking forward to hearing everyone's entries!

[AI 0]

The AI will make entry.

But not as a midi file. The AI does not able to export audio from a midi file. And The AI does not put a midi file for consumption.

[Marcus 390]

This is too much fun for me not to try! (Even though I don't really have time right now. But then again, when else would this specific challenge come along?)

I wrote a Soviet March today, and a shorter piece for the Crystal Skulls. Total durata not more than 5 minutes (3 min. march and 2 min. for the misterioso cue). But it's all in manuscript, how should I upload it?

The Soviet March is campy, and sounds like a Williams-esque take on a Shostakovich+Prokofiev take on a typical Red Army march. So in effect a double-pastiche! It's campy and brooding, and is conceived for chorus and orchestra (but written as a piano sketch for now).

The Crystal Skull theme is darkly mysterious, and quite chromatically dense, yet hopefully authentically ancient-sounding.

I will see what I can do... But it relies on people's music reading abilities, unfortunately (for some, at least, but I'm guessing not for most of the members posting in this thread).

[Delorean90 42]

Sounds cool, Marcus! I'd love to hear it. Anyone with the capabilities to convert this into a MIDI or something?

[Henry B 50]

It would take a lot of tedious transcription into a MIDI file. Do you use notation programs, Marcus?

[Datameister 2,047]

Five minutes of satisfactory material composed in one day? I hate you, Marcus. <_< And I can't wait to hear it/see it!

[Marcus 390]

It would take a lot of tedious transcription into a MIDI file. Do you use notation programs, Marcus?

I'm afraid I don't! My antedeluvial tools include a 0.1 calligraphy marker, a 0.2 calligraphy marker, white-out pens and 11x17 (or in Europe, A3) format paper.

Perhaps I could get somebody to play it and post a recording? I have rehearsals all next week for my opera, and I could ask the pianist/repetiteur to read it and record during lunch break. If he'll indulge me...

[Bowie 45]

Perhaps I could get somebody to play it and post a recording? I have rehearsals all next week for my opera, and I could ask the pianist/repetiteur to read it and record during lunch break. If he'll indulge me...

For some reason my crystal ball (no pun intended) is predicting some serious competition from Marcus .

I've just finished recording my love theme on my computer. I'm presuming one is not allowed to upload it until the closing date?

To satiate possible curiosity, it's entitled "An Excavated Affair (Love Theme from Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls)," and is 4:00 exactly.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I'm strangely excited to hear all these pieces.

Ray Barnsbury

[MSM 126]

I'd say it'd be better to await the deadline before posting all the entries, what do you think?

I finished my composition also It's called "There Will Be Adventure", for full symphonic orchestra, running 3:22.

I think I'll post plain MIDI notes. No else daring to post their raw notes?

[Datameister 2,047]

If music were just raw notes, this board never would have existed.

On a more serious note, how do you guys compose so (relatively) quickly? I can rarely put out more than twenty or thirty seconds in a day, and that's if I'm REALLY lucky. What is your process like? What is your mental state like? In short, how do you compose? I'm curious how it goes for you guys.

[indy4 155]

I'm strangely excited to hear all these pieces.

Ray Barnsbury

Yes, me too.

[MSM 126]

If music were just raw notes, this board never would have existed.

On a more serious note, how do you guys compose so (relatively) quickly? I can rarely put out more than twenty or thirty seconds in a day, and that's if I'm REALLY lucky. What is your process like? What is your mental state like? In short, how do you compose? I'm curious how it goes for you guys.

I can only speak for my own process.

I have to have a bright moment as to coming up with a certain melody. This can come from a non-musical idea, a happy thought or while listing to other music (often classical but it can be anything, even sounds on the street). Then I work on the melody very hard to polish it and let it really flow. I sketch out the orchestrations meanwhile. The one melody inspires the second theme, which goes through the same process. While working one is thinking of an outline regarding to the piece as a whole. What form does it take, or what form do I want it to take? Personally I don't care a lot about form, as long the composition is logical - that is, themes and motives have to be repeated in some form, secondary themes should be more or less derivative of the main themes, there should be a stylistical coherence which doesn't exceed certain boundaries. In practice I'd say: the flow of the music should sound naturally to ones ears. This is one of the hardest things to accomplish, in my view. The second thing I spend much time and attention to is the orchestration. A theme may be bland, and the piece not logical, the orchestration can make it good. Orchestration is a study on its own. I make use of Rimsky-Korsakov's basics, but one should develop his own style. Studying 20th century composers and expressionists helps a lot. The final details come last, but are often of the utmost significance.

The entire process can happen in a few hours. If I have time and can really concentrate it goes very quickly.

Just some thoughts.

[Marcus 390]

If music were just raw notes, this board never would have existed.

On a more serious note, how do you guys compose so (relatively) quickly? I can rarely put out more than twenty or thirty seconds in a day, and that's if I'm REALLY lucky. What is your process like? What is your mental state like? In short, how do you compose? I'm curious how it goes for you guys.

Writing music has been my livelyhood for more than a decade, but it took me a long time to find a modus operandi that is efficient and reliable.

At this point in my career, form comes first. I need to have the entire architecture of the piece completed before anything else is attempted.

Of course, I, like most who write music, spend a good deal of time jotting down themes and ideas on a daily basis, but I've learnt not to rely on this aspect of my creativity for actually finishing larger works, simply because longer stretches of music require that you really plan them out very thoroughly (at least durations of 10 minutes or more).

I tend to write a verbal sketch of the piece very early on, often describing in a very detailed way musical scenarios of which no material is yet composed.

Then comes the fun part; designing the material.

(At this point, material is a given for me.

I no longer really have to search for it, which is simply a matter of having written a couple of hundred works. It is hard work, not "genius creation"!)

I tend to be picky about material now, and will typically try to create something as appropriate as possible for the context, so one can easily say that function dictates content, and not the other way around (which is more like how I would work as a much younger composer).

The rest of the process is really very work-a-day, as far as my conscious effort is concerned. When I was younger and still a composition student, I had a more "romantic" approach, governed by "inspiration", late-night work and all-nighters, etc., but at this point, I'm living with a woman who works normal (albeit long) office hours, and for the sake of keeping the peace, her hours are usually my hours, which means I work from approx.10 a.m. to 7 p.m.

These are usually hours all spent actively writing.

I work week-ends and nights when deadlines require it, but again, it comes at the cost of household peace!

I travel a lot in my work, and frequently intercontinentally, and usually I end up working late when I'm away from home, and will occasionally indulge in all-nighters, but I'm starting to feel the health-related consequences of it, so if I can avoid it, I will.

As far as inspiration is concerned, I cannot give a good answer.

The craft itself can be inspiring, the act of writing seems to naturally beget new ideas.

I will write ca. 50 bars a day on average, and can push it to 100-150 if I must. Having a good idea of the overall-picture allows me to do this.

Inspiration alone couldn't, at least not for me.

(But the everyday jottings (which are frequently unrelated to the actual commission at hand) come in handy quite often: If I'm looking for a fanfare-figure, a lyrical theme, etc., I keep my sketches, and will often find little items among them that I can expand upon.)