Sandor 799 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Article on the matter:Article from FSMA sample of Joy:Joy SampleWhat is your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Hahaha, Les must have been a nutjob . . . or just broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Was it justified? Was it hell.I'm glad you linked that sample, because I've often thought about just how close Williams came to 'Joy'. After hearing this, my concerns were completely unfounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Ugh, absolutely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melange 446 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I admire some of Lex Baxter's work, and this was the first I'd heard of a lawsuit against Williams over E.T. After listening to the clip Roald provided, I have to say that claiming Williams ripped from that, is quite a stretch. I can understand musicians frustrations if they can zero in on a structure in someone elses work and feel that composer has ripped it from them and made a ton of cash out of it. And, some works are blatantly similar. This one though, is so subtle. When it comes to music, the concern about whether something was 'lifted' intentionally or was just imbedded in the subconscious of a later composer and is assumed to be their 'own' creation because of that, will always be a problem. It is very difficult to prove that someone 'intentionally' lifted musical structure from earlier works. We all hear music and are influenced by it consciously and unconsciously. With Horner, some things are just far too close to specific classical works to be coincidence (imo) and to me, he has consciously used the structures from other people's work because he admires it so much and tries to weave it into his own work. When he tries to deny those pieces are inspired by certain russian composers, he's insulting people's intelligence. Williams has put out works that are far more blatant that this one. Look at Making the Plane from Home Alone, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Similarity? Yes. Intentional copy-off? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,069 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 This silly thing was discussed to death over at FSM many years ago. Unfortunately the one member who started the thread and was a strong Les Baxter supporter passed away 2 years ago so as far as I'm concerned everything that needed to be said was done then and it's a non issue as far as I'm concerned.However one of the things that was brought up was that it was Henry Mancini who encouraged Baxter to sue Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'd not heard of this issue before. Sounds like someone trying to take advantage of Williams' huge success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,249 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 There's a text on that page that says "Listen to the preview", but it's no link or anything. How do I "listen to the preview"? (Somewhat rhetorical question since it's probably just poor browser support on the part of that site, but I'm too lazy to fire up Firefox now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Yeah, it just started playing for me on Safari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maglorfin 196 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I never imagined somebody would go so far as to actually sue Williams. Shocking! God knows how many composers the Maestro himself could (maybe even rightfully) sue if that was his cup of tea ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 He was sued over the theme from Jurassic Park, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,770 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I read a rumour that that's why every Jurassic re-recording he's ever done since then is really sped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Justified? No not at all. It's good to know that the jury basically sided with Williams. I'm surprised that someone did go as far as to sue Williams because of a similarity between two pieces of music.As stated in that article yes a lot of film score music is definitely copied from other pieces but for Williams, never copied directly just have a similarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Brausam 216 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 What was the issue with Jurassic Park? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandor 799 Posted May 22, 2008 Author Share Posted May 22, 2008 What was the issue with Jurassic Park?Yeah, I want to know too. Never heard anything about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 The question is.Were were you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,069 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Someone claimed Williams stole the melody for the theme from JP from a song this guy claims to have written for his daughter.Never heard what actually happened with the lawsuit. The whole "playing it faster as a settlement" is just a silly rumor started on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 It is very likely of course that Williams got his inspiration for the E.T. Flying Theme from this record, on which Williams even played the piano himself. It is like he was inspired for the Star Wars Main Theme by Korngold's King's Row Theme, and for his Jaws Main Title by Prokofiev's Battle on the Ice (or, which I personally find more plausible, by one movement of his Scythian Suite). However, he never just copies a theme. He totally makes his own compositions. So was the lawsuit justified? Of course not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckM 1 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 The only film music I've heard that I believe was an intentional copy of someone else's work is James Horner's Honey I Shrunk the Kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,807 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 It is very likely of course that Williams got his inspiration for the E.T. Flying Theme from this record, on which Williams even played the piano himself. It is like he was inspired for the Star Wars Main Theme by Korngold's King's Row Theme, and for his Jaws Main Title by Prokofiev's Battle on the Ice (or, which I personally find more plausible, by one movement of his Scythian Suite). However, he never just copies a theme. He totally makes his own compositions. So was the lawsuit justified? Of course not.And wasnt the flying theme composed by angela morley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Daniel Pemberton did intentional knock-offs for his score to The Movies. It was a friendly homage thing though, and I think the score is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maglorfin 196 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Daniel Pemberton did intentional knock-offs for his score to The Movies. It was a friendly homage thing though, and I think the score is fantastic.Yeah, the same could probably be said for Goldsmith's Supergirl score, which (albeit to my knowledge at only one point) quotes the Superman theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Goldsmith's Supergirl is a vastly different score then John Williams' Superman The Movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Goldsmith's Supergirl is a vastly different score then John Williams' Superman The Movie!Indeed, the former is a paragon of narrative clarity, while the latter is a confusing, unfocused jumble of leitmotifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,069 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I knew it, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruckhorn 105 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Daniel Pemberton did intentional knock-offs for his score to The Movies. It was a friendly homage thing though, and I think the score is fantastic.Yeah, the same could probably be said for Goldsmith's Supergirl score, which (albeit to my knowledge at only one point) quotes the Superman theme. And that quote was in the scene when Supergirl eyes a poster of Superman.There are two instances that I know of that have resulted in "guilty" verdicts: Queen and David Bowie's "Under Pressure" being used by Vanilla Ice in "Ice Ice Baby" and Huey Lewis' "I Want a New Drug" being sped up for Ray Parker's "Ghostbusters". One of the things that helped Lewis' argument was that he was offered the job of writing the theme song for Ghostbusters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now