Goblet of Fire

[Williamsfan301 12]

I've finally sucked it up and watched Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. I never saw it in the theater mostly because the only reason I saw the movies in the first place was because JW was doing the scores. Now that I've seen all of them, I've concluded that Patrick Doyle did the best of the non-Williams scores. Its the one that seems to connect with JW's sound the best. Nick Hoopers don't even seem to try.

It would still be great for JW to do the last movie (or two movies if they divide it), though. Nothing beats him!

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Hooper's is better than Doyle's by far.

[Henry B 51]

Doyle's score takes a totally different direction, but it's good.

[Morlock 12]

Both Hooper's and Doyle's scores failed to excite me. Though I think that between the two of them, Doyle's score is much more cohesive, and much grander.

[MissPadmé 17]

I don't like the Doyle Score and that Version of Hedwigs Theme by him has the most unnecessary and terrible sounding chordprogression I know.. I sounds so amateurish.. are you boys know what I am talking about?

Now I really prefer the Hooper OST. The Theme of Umbridge really fits into the glossary of Themes John Williams has started. Only Thing I really dilike are... when there is a battle all you have musicwise are some boring string-ostinatos!

[Jill Sandwich 11,166]

Doyle's score was rather nice. I certainly wouldn't say it was "amateurish". The mainstream Potterfans overpraised it at the expense of Williams for whatever reason, but it's not a bad score.

[MSM 194]

I don't like the Doyle Score and that Version of Hedwigs Theme by him has the most unnecessary and terrible sounding chordprogression I know.. I sounds so amateurish.. are you boys know what I am talking about?

Now I really prefer the Hooper OST. The Theme of Umbridge really fits into the glossary of Themes John Williams has started. Only Thing I really dilike are... when there is a battle all you have musicwise are some boring string-ostinatos!

You are right about the chord progression. But overall Doyle's score is way better movie scoring and much more skillful writing than Hooper's IMO. If there actually are such things as themes in Hooper's score surely they are not substantially there. The tone is ok, and maybe more HP than Doyle, but then again out of place in the correspondent scenes.

[Ollie 1,375]

While I can understand the disappointment of Williams not continuing, Doyle's score is good. It also works well within the film, which is it's primary function.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

Yes!

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Hooper drives the boat chief, oh wait, Hooper's score is the best of the two non williams scores, Doyle's is bland.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Hooper's however, is TV-sized.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

so was Doyles, its a shame he was ever attached to it. Hooper's score at least supports the film, GOF could have pulled a Birds and no one would notice.

[Marian Schedenig 11,695]

Doyle's take on Hedwig's theme is nice. I can't imagine Doyle writing something really amateurish these days, even if lately, I haven't heard anything by him that excited me too much.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Even if I may be in the minority on this, I think Hooper's score sounds like a mediocre video game effort. I thought Doyle's "Another Year Ends" was a bit uninspired, but Hooper's "Loved Ones And Leaving" was so downright boring.

[MrScratch 296]

Both are mediocre with a couple of decent cues here and there. Doyles just lacked magic, for lack of a better word. It could have been a score to any action movie, Hooper sounded like he was trying to make an effort to sound Williamsy and fit in with the original themes.

[Richard P 5,303]

Both scores have their relative strengths for me. I judge Doyle's score to be just better technically, but it's still a Doyle score. You could track a cue from Eragon in this movie and no one would notice. Hooper's score just downright bores me at times, and reeks of a TV score at times, but it sounds more Potter than GoF.

Plus Hooper's themes are... where, exactly? The only thing I can hum from that entire score is Flight of the Order of the Phoenix, and that is just a catchy melody.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

The best cue may be "Dementors In The Underpass". Largely, Hooper's score is even more childish than would have been good for Sorcerer's Stone. And not fitting at all for such a serious film ("darker than the previous films" - god how I hate this phrase).

[Richard P 5,303]

Have they ever made a sequel (not 'third', I know there are lots) that's 'lighter' than its predecessor?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

Lethal Weapon 2?

[Koray Savas 2,260]

[if there actually are such things as themes in Hooper's score surely they are not substantially there.

Umm... Professor Umbridge, which is a great theme of JW's tone.

Also The Sirius Deception and The Death Of Sirius are fantastic action cues.

[Morlock 12]

Professor Umbridge is not a good theme. Jw would have had at least a hint of darkness, not mirroring the exterior of the character. What she does is pure evil, and in the movie, it comes off as too light, due to the music. The score has no cohesiveness, no real standout moments. And the only scene in the film that I think got the appropriate cue in every sense was the training montage. Hooper is just out of his league.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

Out of his league?

It's just a Harry Potter film.

[Morlock 12]

The size of movie. His music sounds very light. No weight behind it. Every cue, disconnected from the rest of the score, has it's own simple idea, thinly orchestrated...just a very light score. Certainy nothing in it to rediscover.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

Certainly. Hooper's score just lacks weight and largesse.

Umbridge's theme is too symmetrical to rival any Williams Potter theme.

[John Crichton 4]

Professor Umbridge is not a good theme.

You are correct, sir. Way too light and fluffy with no touch of the character's darkness.

Hooper's score is a much better listen on CD, in the film they're closer but I still prefer Hooper's. Doyle's GoF is the ultimate in generic blandness, except for maybe Superman Returns.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

But GoF has its moments, contrary to Superman Returns.

[Morlock 12]

My favorite part of Ottman's score is the Legends of the Fall moment. And I'm more receptive to Ottman than most.

My problems with Doyle's score are more because of how much I love Doyle's earlier work, and how much every idea felt like a watered down version of another Doyle theme. That, and the fact that I hated the film. But I think that Doyle's score is a real score. It's got weight. It's got some consistancy.

[John Crichton 4]

That, and the fact that hated the film.

Did he? I never heard that. If he didn't really have his heart in it that explains a lot, because as you say he's certainly a capable composer.

[Henry B 51]

Professor Umbridge is not a good theme. Jw would have had at least a hint of darkness, not mirroring the exterior of the character. What she does is pure evil, and in the movie, it comes off as too light, due to the music. The score has no cohesiveness, no real standout moments. And the only scene in the film that I think got the appropriate cue in every sense was the training montage. Hooper is just out of his league.

Yep. Hooper had a few bright ideas, such as "Room of Requirements," and that's about it. The drop in quality between the few centerpiece cues and the rest of the score is astounding. And besides that, most of the cues are totally unoriginal and just ape RCP and other modern film score styles.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Well we are in the modern day of films and scores. What'd you expect Hooper to do?

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

So, modern means uninspired and rubbish?

[Henry B 51]

Well we are in the modern day of films and scores. What'd you expect Hooper to do?

I'm saying he imitated the conventions of the day and didn't innovate in the slightest.

[Jill Sandwich 11,166]

Out of his league?

It's just a Harry Potter film.

Indeed, people blow it out of proportion.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,387]

That, and the fact that hated the film.

Did he? I never heard that. If he didn't really have his heart in it that explains a lot, because as you say he's certainly a capable composer.

Morlock hated the film, not Doyle.

[Morlock 12]

Correct. I missed the 'I' in there by mistake. I'm sure Doyle had a fine time with the film. Though I can't imagine a jolly Scotsman like him disliking any film, really.

[Mr. Breathmask 624]

Goblet of Fire

Best of the non-Williams scores

So what you're saying is that out of 5 scores it ranks... fourth?

Or just that it's better than Hooper's?

So?

[Williamsfan301 12]

My problem with the Hooper scores - and I've only heard one - is that they don't sound like Williams. Example - the scene were the Order of the Phoenix are flying over the Thames on their brooms. Williams would never have scored that with snare - it would have been pulsating eighths in the horns, soaring theme in the strings - you know - ET. But it wouldn't have had that militaristic quality to it. Hooper's scores lack the "magic", no pun intended.

Doyle's score, to me, at least made a good attempt at sounding like a Williams score. Hooper's doesn't even try to do that, to me.

There's been talk of Doyle's blandness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hadn't he just gotten over a bought with cancer before he scored GOF?

[John Crichton 4]

That, and the fact that hated the film.

Did he? I never heard that. If he didn't really have his heart in it that explains a lot, because as you say he's certainly a capable composer.

Morlock hated the film, not Doyle.

Correct. I missed the 'I' in there by mistake. I'm sure Doyle had a fine time with the film. Though I can't imagine a jolly Scotsman like him disliking any film, really.

Ah, gotcha.

[Marian Schedenig 11,695]

My problem with the Hooper scores - and I've only heard one - is that they don't sound like Williams.

Well... he isn't Williams.

There's been talk of Doyle's blandness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hadn't he just gotten over a bought with cancer before he scored GOF?

No. Doyle's leukemia troubles were around the time when he got his Stepmom score thrown out in favour of a Williams rewrite.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

Score wise...

1. Prisoner of Azkaban

2. Goblet of Fire

Waaay Wayyy distant 3rd, 4th

3. Kiddie Fare And the Sorcerer's Stone

4. Kiddie Fare And The Chamber of Secrets'

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Waaaaaaay distant 5th...

5. Kiddie Fare Sh*t of the Phoenix

[Jill Sandwich 11,166]

At least PS and COS don't pretend they're not kiddie fare unlike the later films that almost brag on about how they're so dark, brooding and clever.

[Docteur Qui 1,581]

I don't understand the criticism for Umbridge's theme. It gets plenty of dark treatment as the movie progresses and we see just how horrible the character is. The track named "Professor Umbridge" only underscores the initial montage of the woman's irritating meddling, so any overtly evil tones would be inappropriate.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,110]

At least PS and COS don't pretend they're not kiddie fare unlike the later films that almost brag on about how they're so dark, brooding and clever.

Hey if you enjoy constantly being hit over the head with fluffly glittery warm and fuzzy flourishes every 3 seconds to remind you: YOU ARE IN A FANTASTICAL WORLD OF FANTASTIC WIZARDRY AND PIXIE DUST AND MAGICAL SPARKLY POOFY TWINKLY THINGS THAT SWIRL MAGICAL FANTASY AROUND WITH A SPRINKLY VILLAIN OF MELODRAMTIC DOOM AND DESTRUCTION! Go right ahead...and enjoy your PS and COS.

Hedwig's theme aside (which incidentally was the darkest part of that score), the first one was just that. It works to some degree in the context of the film, even still it gets overbearing. Score the torment of the boy, not his damn twinkly magical broom. It simply doesn't capture the true spirit of the magic in Harry Potter's universe.

I won't bother discussing how JW hit the ball out of the park and across the ocean in PoA, since I'm sure you are all aware of my opinion of that excellent score.

Doyle on the other hand managed to create an excellent soundscape for the otherwise so-so movie he was given to score. Just listen to "Sirius Fire" and hear the sorrow, sense of family, magic, and yet ominous foreboding all layered together. His technical approach to this film wasn't nearly as complex as we all know Doyle is capable of...but the complexity of his ideas and musical emotions is certainly there.

Hooper's "Ministry of Magic" stands far above the rest of his score, because it too sucessfully captures the interplay of various nuances of the spirit of the HP story to give us what the magic in the world of Harry Potter should sound like.

[Marian Schedenig 11,695]

At least PS and COS don't pretend they're not kiddie fare unlike the later films that almost brag on about how they're so dark, brooding and clever.

Well the later stories are far darker and more brooding, less kiddie fare-y than the earlier ones. The problem is that the fourth movie entirely fails to deliver on that level (it does have its qualities on some others, though that still doesn't have it amount to much as a movie), and the fifth only does so in parts.

[MSM 194]

so was Doyles, its a shame he was ever attached to it. Hooper's score at least supports the film, GOF could have pulled a Birds and no one would notice.

I think you mix up Hooper's and Doyle's names here.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

no you're wrong, its a shame Doyle ever got attached to HP, Hooper however manages a decent score. Doyle doesn't completely fail, but mostly.

[Jill Sandwich 11,166]

Sorry, but I consider the later stories to be pseudo-dark.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

no you're wrong, its a shame Doyle ever got attached to HP, Hooper however manages a decent score. Doyle doesn't completely fail, but mostly.

We agree.

[JoeinAR 1,957]

Sorry, but I consider the later stories to be pseudo-dark.

you've just become a HP hater admit it. Goblet of Fire is dark, much darker than what made it on screen, same with OOTP, the soon to be releases HBP, and probably the two Deathly Hallow films.

Even COS barely touched the darkness of the muggle hatred parts.

[Jill Sandwich 11,166]

I keep saying, Joe, that I still like the first five books, but I just like to pretend the last two never existed. But those books aren't dark, they're just self-important. The villains were clumsy and predictable, and Rowling's prose was as fluttery and jokey as ever at the most inappropriate times, making it seem rather unintentionally funny. But darker? No, her writing style still gave me mental images of a Saturday morning Disney cartoon. As for DH, she lost me.

GOF was kind of dark at times, but the bulk of the book felt like a sports and dating novel, only better told than HBP. OOTP is the most character driven novel in the series, which made it a breath of fresh air from Rowling's contrived fantastical plots, which would make an unwelcome return in the next book that would completely overwhelm the character development and turn them into cardboard cutouts.