The Official JWFan Thematic Tournament

[indy4 155]

Wait...which theme gets the piano rendition in "Remembering Childhood?" 'Cause that's the one I'm referring to.

[John Crichton 4]

Yeah, that's the same thing. The Neverland theme.

[indy4 155]

Alright, cool.

[King Mark 3,631]

alright .NeverLand theme was in my list then

[Hlao-roo 389]

I'm sure Mr. Takis would be happy to refer you to his affectionately exhaustive analysis of the Hook score to clear up any confusion...

[SF1_freeze 131]

8) Hook Main Theme

I need clarification here please. Are you referring to the Prologue theme (first theme heard in Prologue), the Peter/Flying fanfare (later in Prologue, the end of Remembering Childhood), Capt. Hook's main theme (Presenting the Hook, Smee's Plan), or the Neverland theme (end of Flight to Neverland)?

Gotta love Hook.

I think i meant the Prologue theme, and also thought that this was called Peter Pan's theme, but i'm no hook score expert. I don't even own the score, just the track from the JW Greatest hits and the theme there in the beginning is the one i meant

[Jay 37,416]

All components of the Superman March will count as one theme.

That's silly. The Fanfare is a separate theme from the Superman March. Both happen to be included in the same concert arrangement, but so what? Battle Of The Heroes concert arrangement contains the Force Theme, but you dont lump them together.

I'm interpreting Harry's Wonderous World entries to mean Harry's theme, which would also include the "friendship" theme as it's just a variation on the same theme. So I have spoken, so it shall be.

I dunno man, there are like 7 different themes in HWW (Harry's Theme, Hedwig's Theme, Quidditch Fanfare, Gryffindor Theme, Flying Theme ... proably 2 more lol), it might not be safe to assume they meant Harry's Theme.

The themes I need to make sure people are making distinctions on are Jurassic Park, if you're voting for the actual theme from Jurassic Park or the island fanfare theme. So far all the entries have been clear on this as far as I can tell.

Extremely good point. People are always calling the Island Fanfare the "Jurassic Park Theme", when its not.

[Demodex 557]

I have a hard time seeing something other than The Force theme win this competition.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Someday it would be cool if (10-15sec) mp3 examples of every JW theme or important motif are listed/linked/posted on the main page.

So everyone would be able to check within 10-15 sec how each theme or motif sounds. Of course as a true fan you know most of them but we surely

want to attract new people and provide a great knowledge base about John Williams and what would be greater than actual 10-15sec music clips

from his themes and motives.

These clips would be even shorter than preview clips, so i dont think that it would be illegal to do that...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

There used to be a website that was part of the JW-Music network dedicated especially to Williams' themes.

It's gone, unfortunately.

[John Crichton 4]

I think i meant the Prologue theme, and also thought that this was called Peter Pan's theme, but i'm no hook score expert. I don't even own the score, just the track from the JW Greatest hits and the theme there in the beginning is the one i meant

OK. Can anyone that owns Greatest Hits tell me which theme that is, I don't have it.

All components of the Superman March will count as one theme.

That's silly. The Fanfare is a separate theme from the Superman March. Both happen to be included in the same concert arrangement, but so what? Battle Of The Heroes concert arrangement contains the Force Theme, but you dont lump them together.

That's a silly comparison. BotH and the Force theme are seperated by films and decades. The Superman March, as far as I know, has always been generally accepted as one theme since the whole thing is played during the main titles. March, bridge B section, fanfare. No different really than the A and B sections of the Star Wars main theme or Raiders March to me.

I'm interpreting Harry's Wonderous World entries to mean Harry's theme, which would also include the "friendship" theme as it's just a variation on the same theme. So I have spoken, so it shall be.

I dunno man, there are like 7 different themes in HWW (Harry's Theme, Hedwig's Theme, Quidditch Fanfare, Gryffindor Theme, Flying Theme ... proably 2 more lol), it might not be safe to assume they meant Harry's Theme.

Yeah, there's a lot in there but Harry's theme is the most prominent so I figured that's what people meant. If anyone wants to nominate another theme please specify.

I have a hard time seeing something other than The Force theme win this competition.

It's getting quite the run for its money in the initial nominations, from a surprising (to me) source.

[Desplat13 1]

I'm sure Mr. Takis would be happy to refer you to his affectionately exhaustive analysis of the Hook score to clear up any confusion...

Actually, I have been looking for this for a while. It doesn't seem to be on this site. Is there any way for non-FSM subscribers to get a hold of this?

[John Crichton 4]

You used to be able to pull it up on one of those web archive sites, along with old incarnations of JWFan. Trying to remember how...

[Red 75]

I think i meant the Prologue theme, and also thought that this was called Peter Pan's theme, but i'm no hook score expert. I don't even own the score, just the track from the JW Greatest hits and the theme there in the beginning is the one i meant

OK. Can anyone that owns Greatest Hits tell me which theme that is, I don't have it.

The theme at the beginning of "Flight to Neverland" is the Prologue theme, and from there it goes to the Flying theme (just like the "Prologue" on the OST) and then into the Neverland theme (mimicking the End Credits). Oh, and Peter's theme is actually the theme heard in "The Face of Pan" (and "You Are the Pan").

And here is John Takis' dissection.

[John Crichton 4]

Thanks red, on both counts. One vote for Hook Prologue added.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm going to be the only one to have voted for Avner's Theme and Sean's Theme Probably Crimebuster's Theme too.

[Richard Penna 3,707]

Hmm, yes.

I get the feeling that the themes that make it into the eventual top ten are going to be the same old stuff - Star Wars, Jaws. *yawn*.

Hence my 'Cowboys' nomination for one.

[Jay 37,416]

Please allow me to try to clear up some of the Hook themes confusion. I'll try to give times from the OST when I can, and note that I am not relaying EVERY instance of each theme

There are 13 lietmotif themes in Williams' score:

The "Prologue Theme" - for lack of a better name - is heard in "Prologue" at 0:06 and 1:04, "Hook-Napped" at 0:12, 0:37, and 2:19. I'm not sure what this theme is supposed to represent (if anything)

The Flying Theme can be heard on the OST in "Prologue" at 0:31, 0:57, 1:11, and 1:16, "The Never-Feast" at 3:20, "Remembering Childhood" at 8:47, 9:02, 9:29, 9:46, 10:34,etc, and "Ultimate War" at 0:04, 1:02, 2:32, 3:22, 5:15, etc

Tinkerbell's Theme can be heard in "We Don't Want To Grow Up" at 0:09, and "The Arrival Of Tink" at 1:53 and 3:14, "Farewell Neverland" at 5:20

The Neverland Theme, which is also used as Granny Wendy's Theme, and is sometimes referred to as the "Main Theme", can be heard in many tracks, including: Granny Wendy at 0:55 and 2:08, "The Flight To Neverland" at 5:08, "the Lost Boys Chase" at 3:10, "The Banquet" at 0:02, The Never Feast at 0:48, Remembering Childhood at 1:46, 2:17, 2:37, 5:10, 6:38, 7:33 and 8:36, "Ultimate War" at 7:42, and "Farewell Neverland" at 7:50 and 8:54. This theme is the melody of the unreleased song "Childhood".

The Family Theme is the theme very similar to "Somewhere In My Memory" from Home Alone, and is heard in Granny Wendy at 0:12, and in "Farewell Neverland" at 6:00, 6:10, 6:32, 6:55, 8:25, 8:40, 9:14, 9:28, and 9:46

The "When You're Alone" Theme can be heard in the OST track "The Never-Feast" at 3:53 and 4:14, "Remembering Childhood" at 0:00, 0:18, 1:01, 1:34, etc, "The Ultimate War" at 7:18, "Farewell Neverland" at 0:00, 3:15, 7:24, 8:10, and of course throughout the track "When You're Alone"

Hook's Theme is heard in "Presenting The Hook" at 1:54, "Smee's Plan" basically throughout the track, and "Ultimate War" at 2:10, 4:23, 4:33, 5:42, etc

Hook's Secondary Theme is heard in "Hook Napped" at 0:53, 1:31 and 3:09 and in many unreleased cues

Hook's Seduction Theme didn't make it to the OST, but is heard in the unreleased cues "Hook's Blues", "Hook Gives The Children Lessons", and "Hook's Madness" (Concorde titles)

The "Pirates Theme" is heard in the OST track "Presenting The Hook" from 1:22 to 1:54, and in the great unreleased cue "Wendy Tells Peter The Truth" (Concorde title)

The Remembering Childhood Theme is introduced in "From Mermaids To Lost Boys" at 1:57, is heard in "Remembering Childhood" at 3:00, 3:25, 4:11, etc and in "Farewell Neverland" at 0:15, 0:51, 1:23, and 1:56. This theme received its own concert arrangement of sorts, released as "Exit Music" on the Concorde CD

Peter's Theme (aka Face Of Pan Theme) can be heard in "You Are The Pan" at 1:47, 2:28, and 3:15

The Lost Boys Theme can be heard in "The Banquet" at 0:20, 1:40, and 2:22, in "The Never-Feast" at 1:15, 1:30, 2:05, 2:25, "The Ultimate War" at 3:42 and 6:19. This theme also has a lovely B section heard throughout "The Banquet" and in "Ultimate War" as well

Hope that helps.....

[John Crichton 4]

The "Prologue Theme" - for lack of a better name - is heard in "Prologue" at 0:06 and 1:04, "Hook-Napped" at 0:12, 0:37, and 2:19. I'm not sure what this theme is supposed to represent (if anything)

I've always thought of it as representing the conflict between Hook and Peter.

[Jay 37,416]

"Prologue" from the OST

0:06 Prologue Theme

0:31 Flying Theme

0:57 Flying Theme

1:04 Prologue Theme

1:11 Flying Theme

1:16 Flying Theme

 

"Flight To Neverland" from the "Greatest Hits" CD:

0:06 Prologue Theme

0:25 Flying Theme

0:48 Flying Theme

0:52 Neverland Theme

1:17 Flying Theme

1:33 Flying Theme

1:47 Neverland Theme

2:07 Neverland Theme

2:23 Flying Theme

2:38 Neverland Theme

3:26 Neverland B Theme

3:42 Neverland Theme

4:21 Flying Theme

 

End Credits:

0:01 Neverland Theme

0:51 Neverland B Theme

1:06 Neverland Theme

1:48-3:05 section from "The Lost Boys Chase"

3:09 Tinkerbell's Theme

3:58 Tinkerbell B Theme

4:09 Family Theme

4:38 Neverland Theme

4:58 Family Theme

5:31 Family Theme

[Red 75]

The "Prologue Theme" - for lack of a better name - is heard in "Prologue" at 0:06 and 1:04, "Hook-Napped" at 0:12, 0:37, and 2:19. I'm not sure what this theme is supposed to represent (if anything)

I've always thought of it as representing the conflict between Hook and Peter.

According to John Takis it is.

There's one more you didn't name, Jason. It's the Mermaid theme heard at the beginning of "From Mermaids to Lost Boys", and it only makes one appearance.

[Jay 37,416]

I didn't list themes that only made one appearance or appeared in only 1 cue, which is also why I didn't list "The Lost Boys Chase" or "Rufio"

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Instead of "Remembering Childhood" theme, my vote was for the "Neverland Theme", the one that begins with the two notes repeating (heard in "Flight To Neverland" beginning when they're over the bridge and on piano during the scene where Peter remembers).

[Red 75]

I didn't list themes that only made one appearance or appeared in only 1 cue, which is also why I didn't list "The Lost Boys Chase" or "Rufio"

I suppose that makes sense.

[paleo 63]

Okay, let's see....

1) Main Theme from Jurassic Park

2) Island Theme from Jurassic Park

3) Anakin's Theme

4) Across the Stars

5) Force Theme

6) Imperial March

7) Emperor's Theme

8) Grail Theme

9) Ark Theme

10) Buckbeak's Theme

Well, nothing off-mainstream here, but the classics are imo always the best...

[SF1_freeze 131]

"Prologue" from the OST

0:06 Prologue Theme

0:31 Flying Theme

0:57 Flying Theme

1:04 Prologue Theme

1:11 Flying Theme

1:16 Flying Theme

"Flight To Neverland" from the "Greatest Hits" CD:

0:06 Prologue Theme

0:25 Flying Theme

0:48 Flying Theme

0:52 Neverland Theme

1:17 Flying Theme

1:33 Flying Theme

1:47 Neverland Theme

2:07 Neverland Theme

2:23 Flying Theme

2:38 Neverland Theme

3:26 Neverland B Theme

3:42 Neverland Theme

4:21 Flying Theme

End Credits:

0:01 Neverland Theme

0:51 Neverland B Theme

1:06 Neverland Theme

1:48-3:05 section from "The Lost Boys Chase"

3:09 Tinkerbell's Theme

3:58 Tinkerbell B Theme

4:09 Family Theme

4:38 Neverland Theme

4:58 Family Theme

5:31 Family Theme

If that's the case then i meant the Flying theme, not the prologue. I thought both were a converged theme

[indy4 155]

All components of the Superman March will count as one theme.

That's silly. The Fanfare is a separate theme from the Superman March. Both happen to be included in the same concert arrangement, but so what? Battle Of The Heroes concert arrangement contains the Force Theme, but you dont lump them together.

That's a silly comparison. BotH and the Force theme are seperated by films and decades. The Superman March, as far as I know, has always been generally accepted as one theme since the whole thing is played during the main titles. March, bridge B section, fanfare. No different really than the A and B sections of the Star Wars main theme or Raiders March to me.

The thing is that for Superman, there's a great deal of seperation between the march and the fanfare. For instance, (for the concert version), there's the presentation of the fanfare, then that rythmic build-up, and THEN the march. It's a seperate theme because is is heard in seperation. As opposed to the theme heard in 2:15 of "Prelude and Main Title March," which, while being a different melody, isn't considered to be a seperate theme from the march. This is because there is no seperation, no real attempt to seperate it and differentiate it from the march. That's also the reason that the Love Theme isn't considered part of "Superman's Theme."

[Jacob 0]

Okay, I've got it down to about 30.

Curse you John. Curse you!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

As far as the whole Superman Theme/March debate goes, I voted for the predominant theme featured incredibly when Superman carries the Helicopter.

[King Mark 3,631]

I specified both the "B" or "bridge" theme for Superman and Raiders March ,if distinction is made

[John Crichton 4]

There will be no distinction nessecary for either Superman or the Raiders March, thank you. We will be proceeding as before.

JDan-

[Hlao-roo 389]

*yawn*

Yeah, that's how I feel about all the non-Back to the Future releases coming out from stupid companies like Intrada and Varèse.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

What will people whinge about after BTTF is finally released?

[Hlao-roo 389]

What will people whinge about after BTTF is finally released?

Internet Service Provider.

[Jay 37,416]

What will people whinge about after BTTF is finally released?

The Goonies, Gremlins, Die Hard 3, Star Trek 5, and ID4

[indy4 155]

...Family Plot!!!!

[Hlao-roo 389]

Indiana Jones.

[John Crichton 4]

Complete prequels!

[Desplat13 1]

I'm sure Mr. Takis would be happy to refer you to his affectionately exhaustive analysis of the Hook score to clear up any confusion...

Actually, I have been looking for this for a while. It doesn't seem to be on this site. Is there any way for non-FSM subscribers to get a hold of this?

Bump.

[Hlao-roo 389]

I'm sure Mr. Takis would be happy to refer you to his affectionately exhaustive analysis of the Hook score to clear up any confusion...

Actually, I have been looking for this for a while. It doesn't seem to be on this site. Is there any way for non-FSM subscribers to get a hold of this?

Bump.

red_rabbit posted the Internet Archive Wayback Machine link a page back.

[John Crichton 4]

And bumps are always appreciated.

Just a reminder, the submission deadline is the day after Christmas. I appreciate that some folks are taking their time with their list, that's great, but I was really hoping for more entries at this point. There are only 22 so far.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

The "Orca Theme" is going to win, I just know it....

[Hlao-roo 389]

And bumps are always appreciated.

Just a reminder, the submission deadline is the day after Christmas. I appreciate that some folks are taking their time with their list, that's great, but I was really hoping for more entries at this point. There are only 22 so far.

It is rather surprising, given that one of the near universal traits of collectors is their penchant for lists and list-making.

I'm probably making this up, but my sense is that some members have grown disdainful of top 10 lists, deeming them infantile, over-simplistic, and arbitrary.

[John Crichton 4]

You could be right. And I would just remind those folks that this is but step 1 in a much larger process. And it's supposed to be fun, no need to take it too seriously.

[Hlao-roo 389]

And it's supposed to be fun, no need to take it too seriously.

Yeah, I agree.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

yeah, Why would else would I make the "orca theme" oN my LIsT.

pay no attention to the capItaL letters in this message (scrambled for no reason whatsoever). they do not contain any form of code When properly uNscrambled.

[Ollie 1,059]

What will people whinge about after BTTF is finally released?

Black Sunday.

[Hlao-roo 389]

It's time to start calling out members who haven't yet submitted a list by name...

Cosman?

Bulk?

Morlock?

All in good fun, of course...

[Desplat13 1]

I'm sure Mr. Takis would be happy to refer you to his affectionately exhaustive analysis of the Hook score to clear up any confusion... <_<

Actually, I have been looking for this for a while. It doesn't seem to be on this site. Is there any way for non-FSM subscribers to get a hold of this?

Bump.

red_rabbit posted the Internet Archive Wayback Machine link a page back.

Oh, I must have missed it. Awesome! Thanks, red rabbit.

[Red 75]

You're very welcome.