Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - who's a fan?

[Kevin 22]

Some people like to point out that Star Trek: DS9 was the beginning of the end of good old fashioned Trek and the idea of being on a permanent space station showed that the writers were finally starting to run out of ideas.

I, for one, disagree.

Deep Space Nine, in part, changed how the game was played. After two relatively uneven seasons, the solo episodic nature that served the previous incarnations of Trek were dispensed with and more expansive story arcs emerged. I would argue that since the premise was about a static space station, it allowed for the overarching stories to be implemented compared where a moving starship from mission to mission. Starting in Season 3 and ending in Season 7, some of the finest moments written for Star Trek were broadcasted.

Deep Space Nine presented a darker, gritter version of Star Trek. It was much more of an show for adults than TNG ever was, with challenging story themes and much more action than TNG ever had (the only Star Trek to ever have one of its episodes not broadcasted because it was too violent. The teenagers who watched TNG became adults watching DS9. It took many of Roddenberry's ideas of Star Trek being a perfect utopia, lit them on fire, and tossed them out a high apartment window.

Avery Brooks (who has disappeared off the map since the conclusion of Deep Space Nine) was perfect for Benjamin Sisko, a captain who was not afraid to make the tough decisions, particularly if the decision was in the 'grey' area. His performance in "In the Pale Moonlight" is stunning to watch as Sisko tries to rationalize the events past in the episode.

The ensemble cast was varied and strong over the years with all the characters getting serious character development in one form or another (even Quark, the comic relief of the show). I was a bit curious about the inclusion of Worf at the start of Season 4, but it turned out to be the right decision (Worf got far far more character development in DS9 than he ever did in TNG show or movies).

All in all, it carried the flame for Star Trek with flying colours in the 90s and that deserves some respect.

(I made this discussion elsewhere but I thought I would bring it here to create discussion).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

DS9 is my favorite TV show of all times. Yes it started a bit slow (like all modern Star Trek series). But once it got up to steam it became really brilliant.

So many great chracters there, regular's and supporting.

Actually I can't think of any show with so many great supporting characters. Garak, Dukat, Weyoun, Martok, Damar, Nog, Rom, Leeta, Winn etc...etc...

One advantage it had over TNG was that DS9 was made just as CGI became offordable to do on TV. So once or twice a season we would get a really great epic space battle. Something that TNG was never able to give us. Which kinda ruined some episodes which were supposed to be epic in nature (Redemption part II, Unification etc...).

I was a bit curious about the inclusion of Worf at the start of Season 4, but it turned out to be the right decision (Worf got far far more character development in DS9 than he ever did in TNG show or movies).

Worf fitted far better with DS9 then he did in TNG, were he was saddled up with lame storylines about being a father to his annoying brat of a son. In GS6 he was finally in a romance that went somewere. (the Worf/Troi attempt never actually did)

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

As much as I hate to see myself in Steef...this statement holds true for me as well:

DS9 is my favorite TV show of all times.

Damn you Steef.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

As much as I hate to see myself in Steef...

Gay!

Still astonished by the difference in Sisko with hair and no goatee (OK, but a bit bland) to the kickass version from laster seasons.

Imagine if they had Patrick Stewart play Picard with a wig? Or William Shatner?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

I also think the First Contact uniforms really helped the tone of the show, and matched Sisko's bald goatee man style.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

Well i did like the uniforms from the earlier seasons, the reversed TNG ones.

Season one was very avarage Alien Of The Week type stuff. Didn't really get hooked till the The Homecoming/The Search 3 parter.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

I don't know. I think there's a sense of loneliness and wilderness in the first two seasons, especially the first the very rapidly diminishes as the station becomes more and more important.

In the first season the station feels like an old haunted castle. Later on it feels like a busy space port.

[Quintus 5,469]

It was great while you were waiting for the wallpaper to set.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Same could be said about your drivel!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

Actually DS9 is one of the shows (X-Files and Buffy are other examples) that made it fasionable to have multi season story arcs. So without those you would not have your precious Lost and Mad Man and whatever else you are so idiotically devoted too.

[Quintus 5,469]

Same could be said about your drivel!

Yeah, like you wouldn't be all over a Quint paid subscription model!

Hmm, ideas...

Actually DS9 is one of the shows (X-Files and Buffy are other examples) that made it fasionable to have multi season story arcs. So without those you would not have your precious Lost and Mad Man and whatever else you are so idiotically devoted too.

Ooo, protective, much?

Anyway, sorry to piss on your bonfire, but it was in fact Twin Peaks which ushered in the ongoing and indeed very current trend of the American mini-serial episodic show structure. Not some dreary soap in space.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

Yeah, like you would be all over a Quint paid subscription model!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Twin Peaks was excellent as well. But Deep Space Nine, in its seven full years, is the one that proved the long-term viability of a serialized show structure.

[Quintus 5,469]

I bet you do wear combats as well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

Blume is correct.

They did quite well considering the show didn't really start out serialized at all.

[Quintus 5,469]

Twin Peaks was excellent as well. But Deep Space Nine, in its seven full years, is the one that proved the long-term viability of a serialized show structure.

Indeed, I guess it's true that an accusation one would never hear levelled at DS9 is that it was just ridiculously ahead of its time. Which is deliciously ironic.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Indeed, I guess it's true that one accusation one would never here pointed toward DS9 is that it was ridiculously ahead of its time, which is deliciously ironic.

And it certainly suffered for it. They tried real hard, but sometimes it just wasn't serialized enough. Plot lines would disappear too quickly, characters would be unaffected by some episode's results, but be deeply scarred by others for the rest of the show. They were still figuring out how much they could push the audience.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

Well TV in the 80's and early 90's was still horribly conservative when it came to how stories were structured.

Blume remember the TNG episode Family was considered quite groundbreaking because it actually showed the aftermath of what Picard went through in the previous 2 eps?

[Quintus 5,469]

I did watch a couple over the years, out of boredom, and there was one which I did actually sort of enjoy. It was about an alien stowaway or something. Decent storyline.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Blume remember the TNG episode Family was considered quite groundbreaking because it actually showed the aftermath of what Picard went through in the previous 2 eps?

Ah yes, that episode that proved the New British Empire had conquered all of France in the 24th century!

[Wojo 2,456]

DS9 remains the high-water mark of dramatic and avant garde Star Trek storytelling. Voyager all but returned to the self-contained episode format with only the faintest smattering of arc format presented in TNG -- i.e. dead characters don't return unless they're cloned or a time traveler; aliens of the week would be discarded and replaced to show a journey across uncharted space; and they had a due date of "get home by the end of season seven." Enterprise tried the story arc with its third season Xindi hunt but if you can tell me it compared to any of DS9's various arcs, you're kidding yourself.

It took DS9 a season or two to try out its new format and cut the strings from TNG to do its own thing, which is why we got so many episodes in the first season with recycled elements like Q and Vash, Lursa and B'tor, Thomas Riker, and the Maquis, though the latter made sense because of the emphasis on the Kardashians and it gave us the logical springboard for Voyager.

Ironically, even though DS9 was made unique by being the sole station-based show of the series, which means most stories largely stayed put, nobody can argue that the show was not strengthened by the addition of the Defiant, which allowed the characters to really stretch their legs more than just those silly runabouts.

Kang, Kor, and Koloth return? Hell yes. Oh, but they have bumpy heads? Don't ask.

Smaller holodecks mean less holodeck failure episodes? Glorious.

The smartass, lovesick doctor? Great character. Loved seeing him get recycled on Battlestar Galactica.

Give us characters we know and love, and then kill them terribly? More please.

And last, but not least...mirror Kira.

[Quintus 5,469]

I always thought the redheaded woman with the crinkly nose was Frenchie from Grease.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

DS9 remains the high-water mark of dramatic and avant garde Star Trek storytelling. Voyager all but returned to the self-contained episode format with only the faintest smattering of arc format presented in TNG -- i.e. dead characters don't return unless they're cloned or a time traveler; aliens of the week would be discarded and replaced to show a journey across uncharted space; and they had a due date of "get home by the end of season seven." Enterprise tried the story arc with its third season Xindi hunt but if you can tell me it compared to any of DS9's various arcs, you're kidding yourself.

I gave up on Yoyager in Season 5 when i started noticing I didn't really care.

It took DS9 a season or two to try out its new format and cut the strings from TNG to do its own thing, which is why we got so many episodes in the first season with recycled elements like Q and Vash, Lursa and B'tor, Thomas Riker, and the Maquis, though the latter made sense because of the emphasis on the Kardashians and it gave us the logical springboard for Voyager.

It's worth noting that while Rick Berman co-created DS9, he doesn't seem to have been directly involved with in after Voyager started. People like Ira Steven Behr and Ronald D. Moore really made it what it was!

Ironically, even though DS9 was made unique by being the sole station-based show of the series, which means most stories largely stayed put, nobody can argue that the show was not strengthened by the addition of the Defiant, which allowed the characters to really stretch their legs more than just those silly runabouts.

The Defiant was the last Federation vessle that really looked cool. And she kicked ass!

Kang, Kor, and Koloth return? Hell yes. Oh, but they have bumpy heads? Don't ask.

We do not speak of it to outsiders!

The smartass, lovesick doctor? Great character. Loved seeing him get recycled on Battlestar Galactica.

There's a hell of a lot of DS9 in BSG actually. Even the design of The Hub is pretty much liften from the Comm on DS9.

DS9 had far more interesting villians though.

And last, but not least...mirror Kira.

I always thought the redheaded woman with the crinkly nose was Frenchie from Grease.

Lee I want you to thread very...very...carefully now!

I worship that character! And no...not the one from Grease!

[Wojo 2,456]

I always thought the redheaded woman with the crinkly nose was Frenchie from Grease.

Lee I want you to thread very...very...carefully now!

I worship that character! And no...not the one from Grease!

Don't be so defensive just because he incurred the name of something that you think manly men are supposed to automatically hate and loathe just because it's a musical with that we-don't-know-where-he-stands Travolta.

Didi Conn:

Nana Visitor:

If you don't see the similarity...

[Quintus 5,469]

I even Googled it this one time, no joke.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

The actresses have a minor facial similarity, thats about it.

As for the character's I have no idea. Unlike you I've never watched Grease.

[Ren 77]

Sorry Steef. I was not a fan of DS9

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

[Ren 77]

Lol

[Quintus 5,469]

Grease is awesome.

[Wojo 2,456]

Indeed.

[Sandor 846]

DS9 is one of my favorite series of all time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

Finally a sensible person! And Dutch!

[Quintus 5,469]

As rare as kryptonite.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Star Trek speaks to a deep part of the Dutch people Quint. It ignites in them a longing for bygone times when they were a seafaring people. Before William the Orange said "fuck this crazy country, I'm out" and ran over to your country.

Since then the Dutch people have patiently been waiting for England to conquer them. They gather annually to display orange colors, hoping to pique the interest of the leader that left them behind.

Write to your Parliament, Quint. Tell them the Dutch cannot suffer any longer. They must be conquered.

[Damien F 1,778]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of DS9, my second favourite ST show after TNG. The first few seasons were a little weak, but that can be forgiven as the show was still finding its feet.

The weaker characters in DS9 were still a lot better than even some of the best characters in Voyager. I love how some of the relationships formed over time (Bashir / Garek, Odo / Quark, Bashir / O'Brien). Of course, being from Ireland, I'm proud to see O'Brien in such a major (and non-cliched) role.

Also, one of my favourite ST moments ever is a scene where Garek has done something truly at odds with Sisko's morals. Sisko barges furously into Garek's shop and punches him straight in the face. Probably not becoming of a Starfleet captain, but it is an utterly badass moment. I haven't seen DS9 for a few years so I can't remember what episode it is from.

Oh, and Dax

Great theme too.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

Very sweet that you seem to confuse two separate William of Orange's Blume.

This is a very cool 10 minutes!

[Quintus 5,469]

You're not the denying the conquering part though! Which isn't at all surprising, Engleesh boy

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

If the Pound is stronger then the Euro I'm all for it.

Hmmmm... English totty!

[Quintus 5,469]

Indeed.

[Marian Schedenig 9,164]

DS9 is fantastic. The first two seasons are rather awkward at times (though compared to TNG's first two, they're masterful; also, they become more interesting when watched chronologically intertwined with TNG's later seasons - lots of crossovers there), but once the show hits its stride, it builds and builds so steadily for several seasons that at times it really boggles my mind. With the turn to a darker, less Roddenberry-ish plot and multi-episode story arcs (at its height, I think there's basically one huge 5 part episode), the show becomes truly epic. Plus most of the cast is fantastic - Shimerman and Auberjonois can make even the lamest earlier episodes worth it in just a few seconds, and the cast of recurring secondary characters (Alaimo's Dukat, Combs' Weyoun and Robinson's Garak, to mention just a few) is outstanding. At the height of the Dominion war, there's a steady recurring cast of secondary characters that's about as large as the primary one.

[stewdog1 50]

DS9 is also my favorite show of all time.

While the first two seasons take a while to get into, they are very important to the ongoing character arcs throughout the rest of the series.

There hasn't been any other tv show that comes close to the quality of writing and the quality and depth of all of the actors involved.

Sent from Tapatalk

[Jay 39,784]

One of these days I'll check out this show. Well, I've seen the first two seasons or so, but then stopped watching

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

I tried it once or twice, few episodes. Definitely not for me.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

You see, Hornist this was what I was talking about!

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

I know. But I tried.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,447]

I bet you didn't!

[John Dutton 7,511]

I haven't watched the entire series through (though I have seen most of the episodes) and I haven't watched an episode through since they were showing it years ago on television. I would like to revisit it.

I wish they had done a crossover movie when they were making TNG movies.

[ST-321 4]

DS9 is the best of the Trek series.

[Trent B 340]

DS9 is the best of the Trek series.

Agreed! Things got real interesting when they introduced the Jem'Hadar. As we also know it was the first series to really show an actual war between the Federation and Klingons and even the Dominion.

I know Gene Roddenberry didn't do anything like that when he was alive but to me the Federation should NOT have been always so peaceful.

I loved General Martok's line about giving the credit to the Breen when they attacked Earth and Starfleet Headquarters saying that his people never even attempted that.