.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Meredith McKay 7,468]

If you edit in the microedited section, it should fit better.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Barnald 404]

I can't understand why they didn't go with that version of the Shire theme over the title - it's so much better. I also prefer that music over the map, and of course it makes Thorin's charge much more epic. I can only assume Jackson thought it made his actions too heroic, and wanted the scene toned down in that respect. But I think the album version sounds far, far better.

It's rather mind-boggling how Jackson's musical tastes on this film differ from 99% of the world. I just don't understand why he didn't trust in Shore as he largely did before.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,735]

It's rather mind-boggling how Jackson's musical tastes on this film differ from 99% of the world. I just don't understand why he didn't trust in Shore as he largely did before.

Urgh.

Over dramatic rubbish!

Really hasn't this fanboy whining gone on long enough? You guys are clearly losing perspective, and robbing yourself of the FUN of being a soundtrack collector.

Barnald's post is easily the worst of this week and therefore earns the Golden Poo Award!

[Barnald 404]

This is my greatest accomplishment yet. Do I get some kind of permanent memento, perhaps one of those to go on my mantlepiece? In hindsight it may have been a touch overly-dramatic I concede.

The week isn't over yet. I'm sure I can come up with something more deserving yet.

[Incanus 5,848]

Well BloodBoal I think you did a very good job with that video of My Dear Frodo. It flows quite neatly in that form and the transition from Bilbo's study to the map and to Erebor might have worked exactly as you have conceived it here without the extra bit of the hobbit rummaging his chests for old mementoes. And yes the dwarven choral chanting is just brilliant (if a bit strong dramatically) for the moment when Smaug bursts through the doors. It is just a bit tighter edit of the whole sequence and gets the point across equally well without too much underlining the nostalgia factor, which necessitated the rescoring of certain sections in the final film.

[tannhauser 101]

Good job Bloodboal, that was interesting to see. However I must say I prefer the film version of the piece largely. In my opinion the Title Shire theme, the Bilbo/Map/Dale music, and especially the slight change at the end (where it modulates to F minor suddenly on the shot of the moon is particularly magical), as well as the slightly different last couple of bars, are all vastly superior in the final film composition. The only part I prefer about the album version is Thorin's theme as Smaug breaks down the gates.

This is a general opinion of mine for the whole score. Most of the film versions I prefer to the album versions, especially Radagast, the pinecone landing (don't get me wrong I LOVE that fanfare on the album, but the Erebor theme works better for the scene) and of course the Eagle rescue are outstanding. Even riddles in the dark, while not as original as the version on the album I found it to be more emotionally resonant and fitting in its film version.

This may be due to the fact that I heard the score first in the film, though it took great self-control not to listen to the album beforehand. I'm glad I did however, because I feel I may have been disappointed the other way around, as a lot of people here seem to be. As it is I thoroughly enjoy both presentations of the score, and I hope to do the same for the other two films.

[Barnald 404]

Do you really think the film title theme sounds better? I just think it flows a lot better on the album version. The transition is jarring. That and the music in the Gandalf and Galadriel scene are my biggest gripes really.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Incanus 5,848]

Hey that's really interesting! I was just wondering last night while I was looking at the Out of the Frying-Pan scene was that bit rescored or tracked from somewhere. And that video shows that it might well be tracked. Good call and good job BB!

[Barnald 404]

Great job. I hadn't really realized how different that music was from what we hear in 'My Dear Frodo' until now.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Meredith McKay 7,468]

If you edit in the microedited section, it should fit better.

We only have like 5 seconds of the microedited section

Bologna! we have 27 seconds!

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,735]

That's not even Ian Holm!!!!

[Barnald 404]

I had a thought the other day - could that music in the standard version of 'Old Friends' have meant to scored the brief flashback to Gandalf arriving at Took's party, where he sees the young Bilbo? That version of the Shire theme would suit, and we know there's fireworks involved. Problem is, you'd expect some version of Gandalf's main theme to feature, and possibly Bilbo material as well. But then that would be a lot for such a short scene.

I've no idea where this scene is supposed to go in the EE, otherwise I probably wouldn't even suggest this at all. I suspect I'm completely wrong.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[gkgyver 1,647]

The firework music doesn't work there I think. I believe more in Barnald's theory.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[gkgyver 1,647]

Can you stop saying Frodo nails the sign?

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Barnald 404]

I believe that the Old Took's party flashback is supposed to go after the Unexpected Party, when Gandalf talks about Bilbo when he was a kid (right after that, there is a shot of a window when Gandalf says "the world is out there", a perfect spot to insert the scene), so I doubt that the music heard in Old Friends was meant to underscore that scene. I guess we'll find out when the EE is released.

That's also where I thought the scene would fit perfectly based on the current edit, as it would explain Bilbo's befuddled reaction, as though he'd become conflicted by his memory. But someone else suggested putting it after the 'Misty Mountains' song, so as to suggest it was a dream Bilbo had that night, perhaps inspiring him to join the following morning. I quite like this idea as well. You could imagine the rather seamless transition between the night sky after the song to the evening party by that big tree.

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,735]

Back to the editing suite!

[Smeltington 1,720]

Cool video BloodBoal! Thanks for putting these together! Makes me think how great it would be to have isolated scores for the films.

[Barnald 404]

I'm wondering if the EE will present the scene which 2:22-3:32 of the extended White Council was intended for? This is particularly interesting since it seems to score an unknown scene in Rivendell, presumably involving Thorin and possibly Elrond. It's certainly too serious for the Dwarf-related Rivendell extensions we know about. I wonder if it's Elrond telling them they're to stay until morning, and perhaps Gandalf letting Thorin know of his plan, and that they're to slip out in the morning. Perhaps it leads directly into the scene of Gandalf going up the stairs with Elrond to the White Council. Of course, we'll be left wondering forever if it's not in the EE.

[Jay 41,546]

OK, I am finally back home and able to watch Bloodboal's videos.  I'll share my thoughts one by one

 

Here, I took My Dear Frodo album version and tried to sync it with the prologue sequence. Of course, I had to do some video editing, because the track seems to be edited (and if it's not, well, it was meant to score a different edit of the prologue). Anyway, I tried my best to make the video sync with the music. It doesn't always work well, but from 4:56 to the end, it just fits perfectly. Hope you enjoy!

 

 

First of all, you clearly nailed the original intention of Shore to use Thorin's theme for Thorin's charge towards the gates (shown at 5:34 of the video).  This kicks ass!!!

 

The music earlier in the video, however, I'm not so sure about.  I think all the music in the opening minutes of the album track was written for some very different assembly of opening moments for the film and its hard to line up with the finished film.  I doubt Shore would have elected to reprise the Shire Theme from LOTR under "The Hobbit" title card; I think he would have elected to use one of his new Bilbo themes there (though if 0:37-0:52 of the track, where Bilbo's Adventure Theme plays, was intended for that title card, I dunno where the music for the "New Line Cinema and Metro Goldwin-Mayer Pictures Presenets" and "A Wingnut Films Production" title screens are).

 

Also not sure about the map music in your video, surely he would have introduced his Erebor theme as the camera zooms in on "Erebor" in the map, and not the non-thematic scoring you have now?

 

And then as nice as the Erebor Theme playing from 1:58-2:17 covering shots showing what the Dwarf kingdom in Erebor is, it seems odd that he would have elected to use Thorin's theme from 2:17-2:41, over shots he's not a part of at all.  I dunno.

 

I'd love to see the original cut of the prologue Shore first score, and get the music he wrote for that with no bits removed!

And here is the second video.
 
As some of you may remember, I once said in a previous post that I believe that the music that replaces the fanfare in the Out Of The Frying-Pan sequence in the film is tracked and doesn't belong here, but rather is an alternate for Smaug's attack in the prologue. So I tried to sync that bit with the footage from the prologue to see how this would work, and I have to say it works pretty damn well, so I think it's quite probable that it is indeed an alternate for that scene. Now, since the film version of Out Of The Frying-Pan is unreleased, I had to rip it from the Blu-Ray, so there are a few SFX, but nothing too distracting.
 
Hope you enjoy!

Wow. Upon first viewing I wasn't sure you were right at all, but after 2 views I am a little more convinced. The idea of using the Erebor theme as the dwarves of Erebor get ready to confront their new enemy certainly makes sense, and the way the Erebor theme is played certainly makes sense for the scene. Only thing I'm not sure about is the chanting, which sounds like it belongs in the climax of the movie, based on the way the album and film versions of the climax were scored. Anybody able to translate what the choir is saying?

New video! This time, I used the alternate bit in Old Friends (Standard Edition Version) for Frodo putting the "No Admittance" sign in front of Bag-End, as well as the short unused bit right before that (I only put that part of the track, because the rest of it was used in the film). This is a tricky one, because if you sync the beginning of the Shire theme with the shot of Frodo starting to nail the sign, then later in the scene, the title music is slightly out of sync with the An Unexpected Journey title card (I actually had to cut a few seconds of the shot of Bilbo on the bench to make it work). So basically, the cue is slightly longer than the actual scene (another example: the fireworks motif doesn't sync well with Bilbo mentioning the "wizpoppers"). It should also be noted that the music that (supposedly) is meant to underscore the panoramic shot of the Shire is not very fitting. All this to say that it's highly probable that the original edit of the scene was quite different, or maybe that the music was meant for something else entirely! Who knows?

<p><iframe height="390" src="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1NAd4WEjm_DZWc5aTJYU0o3SnM/preview" width="640"></iframe></p>

Yea.... I don't think there's any chance that Shore EVER would have scored that panoramic shot of Hobbiton with that upbeat music. And I don't think the fireworks music would have been used for any scene other than one where fireworks were mentioned. I think this little chunk of Standard Edition music is still a mystery.

BTW, a recommendation for future videos: If possible, it'd be cool have have subtitles burned in so you know what the characters are saying as you're listening to the music.

Also: I Love how you used Google Docs somehow to embed these videos.. I gotta look into how to do that

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Jay 41,546]

Right, that's why it's brilliant: It gets around the stupid blockers that youtube has. And it was awesome cause in the thread here it looks completely normal - I thought it was a standard youtube embed until I had to quote the post and saw the code.

So what say you about my comments on the actual videos? Do you really think the choir over Erebor Theme was written for the prologue? That Shore would have really scored the panoramic shot of Hobbiton that way?

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Jay 41,546]

Yea, and I doubt he would have had intended such quiet music for the transition to Frodo hanging the sign - it is the punchline of a joke afterall.

It is odd both sections are roughly the same length though. Maybe the EE film will explain it

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Jay 41,546]

Oh, ok wow! The fact that the cue lines up so perfectly with the film, accenting the two times Gandalf bumps into things, is so brilliant! And how it segues so nicely to the Dwarf-Lords themes at just the right time is great. Why did PJ have to change this??

Yea, I don't get how the SE version of the track could be longer, due to it being a continuous shot and all... that's peculiar!

EDIT: Aha! I think I have figured it out! Take your first video and pause it around 3:02, right when Gandalf hits Nori, then begin playing the SE version of the track and when you get to that same "hit" for him bumping Nori, unpause the video - and voila! The music syncs perfect, adding additional "hits" for Bilbo taking the food away and Bifur entering the frame! Then obviously it falls out of sync when the Dwarf Lords theme should be entering, but doesn't.

So: I think the music from the SE track from 3:05-3:21 is the ACTUAL continuation of the cue, and the music from 3:05-3:28 of the Standard track (which is also in 3:22-3:43 of the SE track) is the weird music that shouldn't be there!

But what is it? (what is it precious, what is it?)

Oh and yea, I think when the scene was scored, Bilbo and Gandalf exchanged a few words when he entered the door.

[Meredith McKay 7,468]

perhaps its a Eaves of Fangorn situation with two different versions in the same track?

I personally prefer the film version, it fits closer stylisticly with the Dwarf End Cap from ROTK, and sounds more, joyful and less stately.

[Jay 41,546]

No way, the original cue is way better than the film version! The film version is just tracked from the very next scene (the crochet one)

And yes, I do wonder if that mysterious bit is an alternate for the same scene...

[Meredith McKay 7,468]

Oh...IT IS!

but there is an unidentified 3 seconds of music:

https://mega.co.nz/#!B9gDkAbI!e9RoJG0-iOKRdDpMKg4X4BL5gnhQKo7XtQcE9Fw-YJ4

Does anybody know where it came from?

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Meredith McKay 7,468]

here is my version of the Old Bilbo scene, its rough, and most likely incomplete:

'>https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OUItX0Jpa0VfSlU/preview

its my first time using google for it, tell me if it works right...

[tannhauser 101]

Why did PJ have to change this??

I think it's just a perspective shift. The original version plays Bilbo, and his house being turned upside down. (the piece that plays here is actually an inversion of the rural setting of the Shire theme - clever!) The rescore focuses on the dwarfs' merry-making. I like both equally.

[KK 3,310]

Nah. The film version sounds more like stock pleasant music for the Shire setting.

The original version has much more personality and is actually keen on addressing the events going on screen.

[Meredith McKay 7,468]

Besides, its tracked

[KK 3,310]

That too

[Jay 41,546]

And yes, I do wonder if that mysterious bit is an alternate for the same scene...

Ok, so here is a test. I used the additional seconds of the extended version of the track, and removed the following seconds to give us a rough idea of how this could work:

Brilliant! I think you nailed Shore's original intentions here! Awesome!

here is my version of the Old Bilbo scene, its rough, and most likely incomplete:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OUItX0Jpa0VfSlU/preview

its my first time using google for it, tell me if it works right...

YES! I think you nailed this too! This is the music from the end of that Shore Music featurette right? I think it fits the visuals perfectly. Shame it was microedited out of the OST (and wasn't restored for the SE CD!)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[tannhauser 101]

Yeah, I prefer the entire film version of the pre-Erebor music. The clarinet on the title is gorgeous, and a nice "unexpected" modulation to D major ( I think? )

The music for Old Bilbo and the map is great as well. I love how it quotes a few bars of the music from Return of the King scoring the similar map shot from Gondor back to the Shire.

[Jay 41,546]

I too love all that music. Though I want to hear all of the Shore's original intention, since it's all removed from the OST version and we only got some of it back in that featurette

[BloodBoal 7,542]

[Meredith McKay 7,468]

I would like to point out BB, that Axe or Sword is microedited on the album, omitting a few seconds of Erebor material, the film version of A Good Omen has the full recording from the Erebor theme on.