21 reasons Least Crusade stinks

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I watched this movie the other day, and I can't believe how bad it seems to get with each viewing.
Its sort of like Superman 2, its just virtually becoming unwatchable. Sure some things work, but in most movies good or bad there are a few things that work, but they are few and far between here.
So here is a list of reason why this film stinks. I am sure most will disagree, though some points are inarguable. Spielberg says he made Last Crusade to apologize for TOD, personally I want a 4, so he can make up for 3. Maybe its just best to leave the series alone.

River Phoenix, annoying as hell, prelude to Jake Lloyd.
it disrespects the audience, by spelling out the Indy mythos
after the dark TOD, they overcompensate & swing too far in the other direction into farcical comedy
the zepplin looks fake, fake, fake
the italian fighter is a terrible effect too
the fat boy as a comic foil, yes thats origianal
the passing of the hat is lame, yes Indy pattern yourself after the BADGUY
the lesson by Henry Jones in the prologue is just pointless
the scotsman act is horrendous, did Indy suddenly join the cast of SNL
the waste of trying to retread Raiders, and then not paying attention to Raiders at all
the whole tank sequence, makes desert chase seem even better than it is and it is great.
the lack of a decent central villian, makes you wish for Belluoq and Mola Ram
the obviously duplicitous Elsa, Indy are you that stupid, even a blind man wouldn't have trusted her
the obvious modern cup, with its machined bottom
X-marks the spot set up,
the undeveloped plotline involing the order of the cruciform sword, they are interesting, lets kill them all off.
Brody the buffoon, hey lets have a lovable character with Alzheimers
Spielberg's lacks direction, sure he had a good time, but he didn't make a good film
Williams' lacks scoring effort, uninspired, but then look at what he had to inspire him
the unbelievable encounter with Hitler, when the Nazi's are after you why not head right into the center ?
the whole no ticket scene, typical of everything is a joke in this movie

please feel free to add to this list.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

What a waste of time, if you ask me.

Dont you prefer seeing movies you like instead of slicing one you dislike?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wow, Joe just listed 21 reasons whI love TLC sooo much.

And of course it has Connery too.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

What a waste of time, if you ask me.  

Dont you prefer seeing movies you like instead of slicing one you dislike?

It's a bit different when it's a move in a series that you like though, isn't it?

I don't think it's as bad as Joe says, but it's definitely the weakest of the three in my opinion. My main problem with it is that it just seems to cut from one action set-piece to another and seems very disjointed. Although Raiders was similar in structure it seems to flow much more smoothly. Whenever I watch Last Crusade I find myself thinking "Oh it's the zeppelin bit. Oh it's the tank bit" etc etc.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Wow, Joe just listed 21 reasons whI love TLC sooo much.

And of course it has Connery too.

my sentiments exactly, by the way...

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

River Phoenix, annoying as hell, prelude to Jake Lloyd.

No. He did very well. The part as it was written just wasn't any good.

it disrespects the audience, by spelling out the Indy mthos

Yes.

after the dark TOD, they overcompensate & swing too far in the other direction into farcical comedy

Yes.

the zepplin looks fake, fake, fake

Meh.

the italian fighter is a terrible effect too

Meh.

the fat boy as a comic foil, yes thats origianal

Yes. But he only has like, what, 2, 3 minutes of screentime?

the passing of the hat is lame, yes Indy pattern yourself after the BADGUY

Yeah, that was weird.

the lesson by Henry Jones in the prologue is just pointless

It establishes Henry and Indy's relationship by actually showing it instead of just having them talk about it later.

the scotsman act is horrendous, did Indy suddenly join the cast of SNL

Meh.

the waste of trying to retread Raiders, and then not paying attention to Raiders at all

I'm not sure what you mean here.

the whole tank sequence, makes desert chase seem even better than it is and it is great.

The desert chase is arguably one of the best chase sequences put to film. Of course you're not going to top that. But yes, the destruction looks good, but the action events are contrived, and everything going on inside the tank is distracting.

the lack of a decent central villian, makes you wish for Belluoq and Mola Ram

Yes, but for some reason, it's not that big a problem to me.

the obviously duplicitous Elsa, Indy are you that stupid, even a blind man wouldn't have trusted her

Maybe, but she was hot. And they were in Venice.

the obvious modern cup, with its machined bottom

So?

X-marks the spot set up,

I actually like that.

the undeveloped plotline involing the order of the cruciform sword, they are interesting, lets kill them all off.

Very true.

Brody the buffoon, hey lets have a lovable character with Alzheimers

Yes.

Spielberg's lacks direction, sure he had a good time, but he didn't make a good film

Have you seen Hook or A.I.?

Williams' lacks scoring effort, uninspired, but then look at what he had to inspire him

Bullocks.

the unbelievable encounter with Hitler, when the Nazi's are after you why not head right into the center ?

Yes.

the whole no ticket scene, typical of everything is a joke in this movie

Meh.

- Marc, who doesn't think LC sucks.

[Rasheed 0]

Spielberg's lacks direction, sure he had a good time, but he didn't make a good film

Have you seen Hook or A.I.?

Hook happens to be one of my favorite movies, thank you very much.

And I happen to like LC better than TOD.

[Falstaft 2,132]

Williams' lacks scoring effort, uninspired, but then look at what he had to inspire him

Rail against one of my favorite movies, I can tolerate. But rail against one of my favorite scores, now that crosses the line. Spare us your flamebaiting please.

[Rasheed 0]

rail against one of my favorite scores, now that crosses the line. Spare us your flamebaiting please.

I second that!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Williams' lacks scoring effort, uninspired, but then look at what he had to inspire him

Rail against one of my favorite movies, I can tolerate. But rail against one of my favorite scores, now that crosses the line. Spare us your flamebaiting please.

look mister 3rd rate beer, this isn't a flamebaiting so deal with it. Its an uninspired effort. Better than I used to think, but nowhere near worthy of the praise some of you foam at the mouth about.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How do you define uninspired?

[Rasheed 0]

How about the Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra? What about the Theme for the Grail? I'm not foaming at the mouth by any means, but these most certainly are not things that Williams just thought of out of lack of inspiration.

[Sandor 797]

look mister 3rd rate beer, this isn't a flamebaiting so deal with it. Its an uninspired effort. Better than I used to think, but nowhere near worthy of the praise some of you foam at the mouth about.

Wooo....this is NOT the Joe I remember!! You ok?

And....TLC IS the worst of the Jones-trilogy and I even agree with some of your statements, but I still like the film. And what's wrong with the score? It's a great score with a truly emotional core.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wooo....this is NOT the Joe I remember!! You ok?

I'm sure Joe's only confessing that the TLC score is better then he used to think to humor me, since I went to the trouble of sending him the boot.

I'm sure he still disregards is as much as ever.

And....TLC IS the worst of the Jones-trilogy and I even agree with some of your statements, but I still like the film. And what's wrong with the score? It's a great score with a truly emotional core.

Do you really mean worst, or do you mean least good? There's a huge difference.

[Romão 2,274]

The Grail theme alone is worth the price of the cd. The score is absolutly brilliant...I listen to the 2-cd boot all the time.

[Morlock 11]

River Phoenix, annoying as hell, prelude to Jake Lloyd.

No.

it disrespects the audience, by spelling out the Indy mthos

No.

after the dark TOD, they overcompensate & swing too far in the other direction into farcical comedy

It does it brilliantly, never goes too far.

the zepplin looks fake, fake, fake

In the wide shots, yes.

the italian fighter is a terrible effect too.

Undeniably.

the fat boy as a comic foil, yes thats origianal.

It by definition should not be original in this sense. The fat boy as the comic foil is part of what makes it so great, that it uses these stereotypes and classic, pulp charicatures.

the passing of the hat is lame, yes Indy pattern yourself after the BADGUY

Yes, it's lame, but it's fully compesated for by that perfect shot of Indy smiling and then catchign a punch to the face.

the lesson by Henry Jones in the prologue is just pointless

It tells us about the character, and creates an expectation for the character. It is essential to enjoying Connery's entrance. Besides, it's a fine entrance for JW's Grail theme.

the scotsman act is horrendous, did Indy suddenly join the cast of SNL

It's funny. It works.

the waste of trying to retread Raiders, and then not paying attention to Raiders at all

Then I guess it must not be retreading Raiders, huh.

the whole tank sequence, makes desert chase seem even better than it is and it is great.

Yeah, the first part of it (Indy on the horse) sucked.

the lack of a decent central villian, makes you wish for Belluoq and Mola Ram

Vogel and Julian Glover are menace enough. The film's strength is in the relationship between Indy and his father, it does not need as central a villain as the first two. That's one thing that makes this film especialy unique- unlike all the other superhero/James bond movies- the movie doesn't need to be as good as it's villain, as it's got Connery to compensate for it.

the obviously duplicitous Elsa, Indy are you that stupid, even a blind man wouldn't have trusted her

A seductive temptress is a classic ingredient. Trouble is, Else ain't that seductive.

the obvious modern cup, with its machined bottom

Never noticed that.

X-marks the spot set up

It's fun. It works.

the undeveloped plotline involing the order of the cruciform sword, they are interesting, lets kill them all off.

Theoreticaly yes, but they're too minor for me to dwell over.

Brody the buffoon, hey lets have a lovable character with Alzheimers

He did not have alzheimers, he was absent minded. And it was VERY funny, and it works.

Spielberg's lacks direction, sure he had a good time, but he didn't make a good film

No, probably, yes he did.

Williams' lacks scoring effort, uninspired, but then look at what he had to inspire him

Williams' sounded particulaly inspired, and came up with one of his best scores ever.

the unbelievable encounter with Hitler, when the Nazi's are after you why not head right into the center ?

It is perfect, hillarious, chilling. And he was pushed.

the whole no ticket scene, typical of everything is a joke in this movie

It's funny. It works.

Morlock- who is amused watching Joe so pissed off that people actually like a film he doesn't.

[StrongBad992648 0]

The reason Indy modeled himself after the "bad guy" is to show how much disrespect he has for his father! When given the option to be like his own blood, dress nicely, and research, he opts for the rugged adventurer...quite the opposite of his father. I think it's actually quite clever. Maybe you didn't pick up on it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

And lets face it, Fedora (that's the name of the adventurer, no?) is a tomb raider as Indy is. What if he was hired by a bad guy? Indy was by Donovan, and it doesnt make him bad...

[Dean1700 4]

I thought the passing of the torch from Fedora to "Indy" was a great moment. It is his first real introduction to archeology because his father never had time for him to show him what archeology is all about. He did learn about many artifacts though through his fathers own work.

I didn't like IJATLC for many of the reasons that Joe has listed and then some. My biggest disappointment, as I know it is the same for others, is that GL and SS turned the Nazis into bumbling, incompetent clowns which trivialised the horrors they perpertrated. Lets face it it's only a movie but if every movie showed them like this then the lessons of history will be lost.

I can keep going on this subject but will limit myself to just the above.

Flamesuit on.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I think SS (what creepy initials, seeing the topic) redeemed himself with Shindler's list...

[Dean1700 4]

That is exactly how the Nazis, in particular the Gestapo and SS, were.

[A24 4,338]

I watched this movie the other day, and I can't believe how bad it seems to get with each viewing.

Its sort of like Superman 2, its just virtually becoming unwatchable.  Sure some things work, but in most movies good or bad there are a few things that work, but they are few and far between here.

So here is a list of reason why this film stinks.  I am sure most will disagree, though some points are inarguable.  Spielberg says he made Last Crusade to apologize for TOD, personally I want a 4, so he can make up for 3.  Maybe its just best to leave the series alone.

River Phoenix, annoying as hell, prelude to Jake Lloyd.

it disrespects the audience, by spelling out the Indy mthos

after the dark TOD, they overcompensate & swing too far in the other direction into farcical comedy

the zepplin looks fake, fake, fake

the italian fighter is a terrible effect too

the fat boy as a comic foil, yes thats origianal

the passing of the hat is lame, yes Indy pattern yourself after the BADGUY

the lesson by Henry Jones in the prologue is just pointless

the scotsman act is horrendous, did Indy suddenly join the cast of SNL

the waste of trying to retread Raiders, and then not paying attention to Raiders at all

the whole tank sequence, makes desert chase seem even better than it is and it is great.

the lack of a decent central villian, makes you wish for Belluoq and Mola Ram

the obviously duplicitous Elsa, Indy are you that stupid, even a blind man wouldn't have trusted her

the obvious modern cup, with its machined bottom

X-marks the spot set up,  

the undeveloped plotline involing the order of the cruciform sword, they are interesting, lets kill them all off.

Brody the buffoon, hey lets have a lovable character with Alzheimers

Spielberg's lacks direction, sure he had a good time, but he didn't make a good film

Williams' lacks scoring effort, uninspired, but then look at what he had to inspire him

the unbelievable encounter with Hitler, when the Nazi's are after you why not head right into the center ?

the whole no ticket scene, typical of everything is a joke in this movie

please feel free to add to this list.

What took you so long to finally see this?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Wooo....this is NOT the Joe I remember!! You ok?

I'm sure Joe's only confessing that the TLC score is better then he used to think to humor me, since I went to the trouble of sending him the boot.

I'm sure he still disregards is as much as ever.

And....TLC IS the worst of the Jones-trilogy and I even agree with some of your statements, but I still like the film. And what's wrong with the score? It's a great score with a truly emotional core.

Do you really mean worst, or do you mean least good? There's a huge difference.

actually I listen to it from time to time, I keep it at work. I have also made my own Indy cdr, with several tracks. As I said the Stefan version is better than the original release, but it still is the least of the 3 scores.

Roald I just figured Neil's 50 reasons ROTJ sucks needs a companion piece, and I really do think the film really is problematic.

Alex, I've always felt it was the weakest, but the other day, I realized its not holding up well at all.

[A24 4,338]

Neil's 50 reasons ROTJ sucks

Ahem! Ahem! Neil's 50 reasons Jedi sucks list??

[John McClane 1]

After read this horrible thread, I was going to reply my total disppointment, but Luke and Stefan come before me, so I'll just quote them.

What a waste of time, if you ask me.

Dont you prefer seeing movies you like instead of slicing one you dislike?

Wow, Joe just listed 21 reasons whI love TLC sooo much.

And of course it has Connery too.

Thanks Luke, thanks Stefan!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

A pleasure

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

TLC was always my favourite Indy movie. Several reasons why, major one being Connery. And it was really the first time in an Indy movie I'd noticed the score (apart from the Raiders March).

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Once again, I disagree with Joe on nearly all accounts.

Let me just say, River = great. Beats the crap out of Flannery.

Marcus Brody = friggin' hilarious. "Water? No thank you. Fish make love in it." LOL

Score = amazing. The last track falls in my top 5 (or 3...or maybe even number 1) Williams pieces ever. (The faster version of Scherzo sounds better than the actual cue, IMO.)

I could go on, but I think most people here agree. This film is great. In fact, I think I may just watch it again tonight.

A seductive temptress is a classic ingredient. Trouble is, [Elsa] ain't that seductive.

She can seduce me any day.

[Maestro 147]

The Nazis were portrayed as they were to fit the Saturday afternoon matinee genre of film that Indiana Jones was meant to be by Spielberg all along - not a dramatic, graphically realistic representation of the real historical events surrounding their prominence.

This is the funniest, best cast, best scored, and most enjoyable of the IJ trilogy, and its shame people have to nit-pick it tirelessly instead of just enjoying it.

[ST-321 4]

the passing of the hat is lame, yes Indy pattern yourself after the BADGUY

Yes, it's lame, but it's fully compesated for by that perfect shot of Indy smiling and then catchign a punch to the face.

I think that it is a great transition! Of course JW gives a great rendition of the Indy theme at that moment which makes it work for me.

[Lurker 5]

Neil's 50 reasons ROTJ sucks

Ahem! Ahem! Neil's 50 reasons Jedi sucks list??

If I recall correctly, I posted a link to it first.

Neil - surprised Joe didn't mention anything about Indiana's tie

[JoeinAR 1,949]

ok, enlighten me Neil, didn't he wear a bow tie?

personally if thats right, I love bow ties, they are classy, and hard to tie.

[Lurker 5]

ok, enlighten me Neil,

Neil

[John McClane 1]

That's not a reason for hating the Last Crusade, since there are simply 0 reasons to do!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

ok, enlighten me Neil, didn't he wear a bow tie?

personally if thats right, I love bow ties, they are classy, and hard to tie.

If yourecall, that tie seemed to be a big reason why Ricard disliked TLC so much.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

What's wrong with the tie?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I dont really know. but the hate is there (i couldnt believe it when i heard it)

And halfway in the movie, i think indy leaves it...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What's wrong with the tie?

There are some who feel that while it is OK for Doctor Jones to wear a tie, it is unacceptable for Indiana Jones to wear one.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Gee whiz. :roll:

Some people make a problem out of everything.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Spielberg and Lucas raped his childhood memories.

Just kidding Ricard, you know I love ya!

[Elmo Lewis 6]

What a waste of time, if you ask me.

Dont you prefer seeing movies you like instead of slicing one you dislike?

I don't think stating why you dislike a movie is a waste of time. Joe used to think so, though, at least he did in my "Why I Hate Superman - The Movie" thread. Must have changed his mind.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

no Ross, its just that Superman the movie isn't like Last Crusade, its a loving piece of film work, that works on levels LC could even begin to imagine.

Superman is a very good movie, and a great piece of entertainment. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is an average movie, and good entertainment the first time. It simply doesn't hold up.

My biggest problem I seem to recall about your I hate Superman the Movie thread was your criticisms of Chris Reeve, and on every level that is wrong.

as for Luke ignorant comment,

Luke when I go to a movie, I go because I want to see it. At that point I don't know if I like it or not.

Only after I see it do I make that decision.

I saw Last Crusade at a sneak preview of the film a week before it opened nationally. I enjoyed it, but I was unsatisfied, and am still unsatisfied with the finished product. It simply is not as good as Raiders and anyone who says it is, is a fool. Its not even as good as TOD, which as I have pointed out many times on this board was a better reviewed film at the time, than LC which only garnered luke warm reviews at best.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

no Ross, its just that Superman the movie isn't like Last Crusade, its a loving piece of film work, that works on levels LC could even begin to imagine.

Superman is a very good movie, and a great piece of entertainment.  Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade is an average movie, and good entertainment the first time.  It simply doesn't hold up.

My biggest problem I seem to recall about your I hate Superman the Movie thread was your criticisms of Chris Reeve, and on every level that is wrong.

Well, as long as your personal opinion justifies everything...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

as if yours does?

I'll say it again, Christopher Reeve's performance in Superman is dead on perfect, my opinion, that is also 100% fact. He gives as sure and as true a performance as could possibly be imagined. Your personal opinion of his performance was wrong, and evil.

If only there had been a performance in LC that was half as good as Reeve, sadly there was not.

[Justin 2]

My biggest problem I seem to recall about your I hate Superman the Movie thread was your criticisms of Chris Reeve, and on every level that is wrong.

No more wrong than Williams Last Crusade score being uninspired.

Justin

[Elmo Lewis 6]

as if yours does?

Huh? I validate this thread, disagree as I may with it. I actually defended it up above, Joe. It is you who found a thread pointless just because you disagreed with it.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

wrong Justin, Williams score for LC isn't nearly as good a score as Reeve's performance of Superman/Clark is a great performance.

next.

[Justin 2]

wrong Justin, Williams score for LC isn't nearly as good a score as Reeve's performance of Superman/Clark is a great performance.

That's like comparing the hood of a car to a sandwhich.

Justin

[JoeinAR 1,949]

as if yours does?

Huh? I validate this thread, disagree as I may with it. I actually defended it up above, Joe. It is you who found a thread pointless just because you disagreed with it.

Look Ross, I am not looking for validation, I don't need it, I discounted your thread based on the central premise that Reeve's was wrong for the role. It did not invalidate the thread for you, or any who agreed with you.

this thread is my opinion, and I posted it knowing that 8 to 9 out of 10 would disagree.

Sometimes its a burden knowing that so many can be wrong on something, and not have a clue they are. LOL

[JoeinAR 1,949]

wrong Justin, Williams score for LC isn't nearly as good a score as Reeve's performance of Superman/Clark is a great performance.

That's like comparing the hood of a car to a sandwhich.

Justin

Wait Justin, didn't you just make a comparison about one argument to another, and now you say to do so is like comparing a hood to a sandwich.?????????? Talk about putting the Justin in Justinfication.