FilmComposer518

Wow, there are even more sarcastic snots on this board than the last time I posted here! Thought I'd update you all with some fun behind the scenes info with this score, as I did for War Horse and Tintin, but so far the majority of the posts in response to mine have been the above piddling little wastes of time. Forget it. And by the way, being able to read an orchestral score and hear it aren't superpowers - they are musical powers. Judging from your avatar, let me put this in terms you can understand: Bloodboal: Level 1 cave troll with magic music capabilities of 05/100; a pair of bitchin' green pointy shoes; and a "I'm sarcastic because I'm not confident in myself" score of 97/100 Me: Level 6 Film Composer with magic music capabilities of 87/100; real world shoes that I wear to recording sessions; and a "helpful attitude to give a community I've been a part of (first with a different username and now with this one) since 2003 a sneak perspective of the music" score of 90/100. But wait!! You've struck me with your mystical "Sword of Attitude" and countered my attempt to use the magic spell "Reason" with your "Sarcasm shield!" You got me good! My helpful attitude score has dropped down to a score of 12/100. Oh well.

Please keep in mind that I HAVE experienced most of the score for Lincoln...I'm not going off of 20 seconds of music. Next, I forget who mentioned that maybe my opinion will change if I actually (insert sarcasm) listen to the score. I have the ability to read a full score and hear it exactly how it will sound fully orchestrated. I can't judge what emotion the players will put in, or if Williams will do something totally not in the score (occasionally) but I have indeed experienced the whole score and how it will sound.

First of all, thanks to the welcome back from several members in PM. I apologize that I can't post more - I am incredibly busy and honestly just do not have the time to do anything fun on the internet. Having a busy career is a double-edged sword, I'm afraid. Yeah that melody is pretty much the main melody. So if you don't like it, you probably wont' really care for the score. It goes through several orchestrations. However, that is NOT the "hymn" from the score, unless I am mistaken. There is a piece of music that is actually very harsh sounding at times (jarring...emotional...painful) that refers to obvious things -= the war, Lincoln dying (spoiler...Lincoln dies) etc. Not my favorite score. There's a lot of "reflective John Williams battle horns in the distance" with lots of moody strings...tiny orchestration for most of it (which isn't bad) and the piano melody is throughout the whole score. Let's just say that I'd be sad if Williams goes out with this one. After further reflection, I have actually decided that I like Tin Tin's score more than War Horse - I just love how fun and quirky it is. Mind you, my opinion could change, but here is the rating for the 3 to give you perspective: Tin Tin - 8.5 War Horse - 7 Lincoln - 6 Sorry to give bad news... :-( Who knows maybe some soulful playing from the orchestra (as I have not HEARD the music...just read it) will elevate it. It's quality music...and I'm sure it works well for the film...it's just...well...boring.

That is indeed from the score. It is a HUGE part of it actually, one of the most prominant aspects of it. This is a verrrrry subtle and mellow score...very moody and low key.

Josh, I would like to just throw out there that calling someone a "better composer" at any point in their life is not a cold hard fact-based thing. It's an opinion. I would also like to state that NOWHERE in my posts did I ever say Williams was "worse" now than back in the 70's and 80's. That would be moronic of me to actually presume he...what...forgot how to compose over the years? But really what you are saying is comparable to saying "Mozart was a better composer in his early thirties than his middle twenties." Says who? There is no supreme law on what is better composition unless you are just looking at Bach Chorales and judging similar boring technicalities. Do I happen to agree with you that his music has grown in depth? Yup! Does that mean he is a better composer than he was before? Who are we to say? Can we PLEASE get back to the music of War Horse and Tin Tin and stop going on and on and on about old/new Williams? It's boring and tired. His style has changed along with the styles of movies over the years. What else is there to say?

1. Beetlejuice - simplicity and insanity all in one...love it. 2. Batman - THE perfect Batman score 3. Batman Returns - THE perfect Batman as a tragic opera score. This score truly does not get as much credit as it should 4. Pee Wee - Come on...it's so stupid it's fun. Much like the character of Pee Wee 5. Edward Scissorhands - The cross between cheesy 50's American Suburb music and beautiful lullaby are wonderful. There is a reason everybody rips this off to this very day. Runner Up: Nightmare Before Christmas - I find that I can't really listen to this as much anymore. I tend to only listen to "This is Halloween" and "Making Christmas" and the rest annoys me. Wow, my answers are so cliche...but I think it's obvious that although I was born in 1984, I'm a big 80's Burton fan!!

Merkel - PM me for that answer. Michael - The score does not feel jumpy at all. All of the ethnic instruments are used either to emphasize a brief filmic moment, or to evoke a certain tone in the music. It doesn't jump from classic Williams orchestra to jazz saxophone from one cue to the next. Think the way Terminal had accordion in the main theme and throughout...it worked because it blended. Quite the contrary in regard to the themes...each theme is used extensively in Tin Tin. Almost every cue has at least a touch of the several themes. I wouldnt' say they are developed that much over time...pretty much what you first hear is what you get from them. Sort of like Indy's theme...sometimes it is fast and adventurous...sometimes it is slow and thoughtful...but it doesn't really morph that much over the film.

Anyways, if anybody has any other questions to ask about the score, feel free to shout it out. I am on "vacation" if you will until after the 4th of July so I should be able to check back in now and again to answer questions. Seems that most people have asked the "general gist of things" questions though, so if you have any others, I will try my best to answer!

Maurizio, you are correct. If you back track a little on this topic, you'll see that I say that Williams is not at fault with his current writing style, and that he is adjusting to what directors, producers and modern films are dictating. Please understand that while I don't enjoy the current action writing trend, that doesn't mean that I think Williams isn't CAPABLE of writing what he used to. He is bound to the film, and you are very correct in your analysis of frenetic crazy action scenes in modern films. Publicist, I actually have to disagree with you a little on your last statement about Spielberg films having less going on. Yes, they are still very slick and very focused in their main characters and flow. But, look at something like Minority Report while Anderson is escaping from his car...look how much is going on in that scene around him. Or watch the chase through Yale...ahem...I mean...whatever college Indy works for in Indy 4...there is sooooo much going on in that scene. On the flip side, watch the Desert Chase in Raiders...surrounded by...well...desert. There are a few cars, Indy, and a couple nazis...yet the chase is just as exciting! Listen, Spielberg still orchestrates the best and most intricate action sequences in film. He is a MASTER at that...but they are certainly more cluttered with "extra stuff" than they used to be. Obviously I haven't SEEN War Horse, but I have heard the score, and I think Spielberg might have asked Williams to harken back to his older style with it. Either that, or Spielberg harkened back to HIS old style a little bit, because the action cues are very very focused in it.

Quidditch, 3rd Year is a shining example of AMAZING modern JW action scoring. Even in that cue, there are elements of the annoying generic Williams action writing, (again...xylophone/woodwind chirping) but it is surrounded by great material!

Stefan, that is exactly what I feel on the matter. Chase Through Coruscant, while being rhythmically interesting, is just not the same for me as his more thematic action material. That's not to say that anybody who prefers that is wrong! My ear just gravitates towards interesting harmonies and melodies rather than driving rhythm as a focal point. Crocodile, War Horse does NOT have a ton of action material. But that is what is so cool about the ones it does have. Most of the score is so spellbinding and beautiful that when all of a sudden something millitaristic and ugly crashes through the background, it is incredibly striking. The action music in War Horse is less about fun adventure ala Indy, and more about nastiness of war. It's harsh and brutal in most cases. There is definitely a rhythmic drive (done not with percussion, but more with exciting instrumental figures) but also strong melodic fragments. Again, I can't give out tooooo much detail about individual cues, but I think that should answer your question a bit.

As a composer and someone who has been trained in orchestration/theory and all of that junk, I must admit that I tend to "get more" from Williams current NON-ADVENTURE music. That includes War of the Worlds, Angela's, Saving Private Ryan etc. There is just a harmonic mastery going on in his more subtle cues that can't be matched by any working media composer today (myself included). It's not just the actual music, but the way even the orchestration and tone and timbre change over the slightest change in the visuals of the film. With that being said...I will ALWAYS enjoy Williams' action setpieces of yesteryear the most. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir when I say this, but Williams' action cues used to be able to be considered concert overtures in their own right. Every single one of them. Each action cue had it's own unique melody and amazingly detailed harmony as well as staying perfectly true to every millisecond of screen visuals. There is a reason that Williams is the most performed film composer of all time in the concert hall, and that is because his older style was literally to write amazing concert works that just happened to fit perfectly with the picture. Compare that to his current action writing, and you'll notice that that is no longer the case for the most part. Very rarely do his action pieces contain melodies belonging solely to themselves. They sort of just hop on the back of the visuals without becoming their own creature. BUT, that is not Williams' fault at all. It's what modern directors and producers expect from their action music. Everyone on this board is a part of an upper class of film goers simply because you LISTEN for melody. Today's audience can actually be quite put off by having to subliminally recognize themes and complex music just because they have been so strongly trained to just open their mouths and pour the action in without any thought. I can promise you that if William were allowed to unchain himself from modern conventions in film (no, even Williams can't do that if he wants to continue to work) we would be hearing those same classic setpiece action overtures. But before anyone gets down on the current state of film music, let me clarify that War Horse (for the most part) does not follow that trend in writing :-) The action pieces in War Horse are pretty neat, and while they don't use the same style as say, Forest Battle, or Indy's First Adventure in concert scoring, they certainly come close...and are DIFFERENT than his latest generic action music that has been accompanying most of his films (cue the xylophone and upper woodwinds chirping out endlessly). The few action cues in War Horse have great unique personality. Tin Tin is a bit more like his general action music BUT there are several cues that achieve more than that. (There are a lot of moments of excitement in Tin Tin.)

Haha sorry. Listen...you are in for a treat with both scores when they come out soon enough. Only a few months. They are worth entry into your Williams collection! Just be happy they are good! - one of them excellent!

Ooh, are you referring to T. R. Tin tin? That cue? You are totally right...didn't even think of that! Haha, yes there is one for Tin Tin :-P

That, I do not know. All I know is what is in the actual film. What Williams does with concert suites is later on down the road. IMO, I think Both War Horse and Tin Tin are worthy of having big suites made.