Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 OK I can kinda hear the Bard's Theme / DOS Opening Logos connection nowSo if Film 1 opening logos = House Of Durin and History Of The RingFilm 2 opening logos = Bard and Smaugthen Film 3 opening logos = What? Dain and Thorin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I always thought of the DoS opening as the combination of five themes.Bard's theme up in the flutes and violins playing the main melody. Smaug's theme and the Arkenstone opening pitches playing the celli counterpoint, and the House of Durin cap-off before the Shire theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Smaug's Theme is the last thing that plays before the Shire Theme though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think there is a little bit of over-analysis going on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Well, what do YOU hear in the DOS opening logos music, KK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I will say that TBOTFA does seem to have the best action material of the 3 Hobbit scores, and some of the best action material of all the Middle Earth scores. But that's also one of my "problems" with the score so far, is that so much of it is "martial" music... there's so much war music, preparing for war music, aftermath of war music... not a lot of room for much else. Another problem of expanding to 3 films I think. I long to hear more of the emotional music I love so much in the ME scores. I know exactly what you mean Jay. I wish we were offered more of those operatic moments that RotK had.But I guess a lot of that is due to the fact this film is literally revolving around this one battle.And as Incanus often points out, it's still too soon to make such judgements. What emotional moments we've heard so far sound lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yea, and I know it's too early too. Just can't wait to hear the full OST, and then film, and then pontificate on the merits of the score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Smaug's Theme is the last thing that plays before the Shire Theme though.Most definitely not. Completely different vibe and timbre. House of Durin it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Well, what do YOU hear in the DOS opening logos music, KK?I hear the allusion to Bard in the opening credits music, and then the obvious statement of Smaug's theme when the DoS title card appears, along with what I assumed was the Warg theme in counterpoint, but that might not hold up to scrutiny very well (I think this theme may have been scratched out altogether).But assigning the counterpoint to the credits music Smaug might be a case of hearing something that's not there. Sounds like usual Shore counterpoint to me.And again, I'm neither Shore nor Douggie Adams, so there's that...Speaking of which, I should read Doug's post on the opening of AUJ again, because I don't think I ever quite grasped the connection to the Ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme!Still no.Where did you got this idea from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,796 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Thats the last four notes of the House of Durin in a different key to the G,LOD statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme!Right before the Shire theme? Is this confirmed?That little snippet popped up in the samples by the way.Thats the last four notes of the House of Durin.That doesn't make it that theme though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,796 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Thats the last four notes of the House of Durin.That doesn't make it that theme though.True... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme!Still no.Where did you got this idea from?My ears....You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme! Right before the Shire theme? Is this confirmed?Confirmed by who? It just sounds like Smaug's theme to me. The first 4 notes. Da-dun... da-dunnnnnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Thats the last four notes of the House of Durin. That doesn't make it that theme though.True...No it doesn't. It makes it a precursor to the full theme presented later. Is it really hard to hear? It's even the exact same rhythm, just without harmonization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Fair enough. I don't think it's either.We'll just have to wait till the book!And Georg, I hear it. But I think that could be a coincidence too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 The thing is that it would make sense either way (whether this is the House of Dunrin theme or Smaug's theme). Maybe that's why Shore wrote that: because it reminds of both themes! Hey, you're probably right!No it doesn't. It makes it a precursor to the full theme presented later. Is it really hard to hear? It's even the exact same rhythm, just without harmonization.Yea, I hear that now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme!Still no.Where did you got this idea from? My ears....You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme! Right before the Shire theme? Is this confirmed?Confirmed by who? It just sounds like Smaug's theme to me. The first 4 notes. Da-dun... da-dunnnnnnYou're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme!Still no.Where did you got this idea from? My ears....You're talking about 0:41-0:48 right? That's Smaug's Theme! Right before the Shire theme? Is this confirmed?Confirmed by who? It just sounds like Smaug's theme to me. The first 4 notes. Da-dun... da-dunnnnnnIt half step down, whole step down, whole step up. That's not Smaug at all. The Mirkwood theme is closer to Smaug than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 We'll just have to wait till the book! I really can't wait for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Fair enough. I don't think it's either.We'll just have to wait till the book!And Georg, I hear it. But I think that could be a coincidence too!You really think so?I don't think Shore writes a piece for these films without pondering every note. Ever.When he isn't asked to rerecord the temp track, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannhauser 101 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Like Gkgyver says, it's a real stretch to say that's Smaug. It's 4 notes. The first two are the same as the first two notes of Smaug's theme. The other two aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I agree it isn't Smaug.Might be Durin, might not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,796 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 It's the "Bilbo You've Changed, You Are Not The Same Hobbit Who Left The Shire" motif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 We may actually all be overinterpreting this, and this is just an atmospheric short bit leading to the Hobbit title card.Shore must be laughing at our posts!That's exactly what I think it is!!It's the "Bilbo You've Changed, You Are Not The Same Hobbit Who Left The Shire" motif Even this is more likely in my eyes (same notes!). I think I heard that little bit pop up in the samples somewhere. Can anyone confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I think Shore purposely made all the music that appears prior to The Shire theme under the The Hobbit title card a unique ambiguous mix of other themes. Which is why I can't wait to hear what he came up with for TBOTFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Um, the piece is building and building, comes to a dramatic halt - and Shore fills it out this exposed spot with random notes that just happen to be the exact House of Durin cap-off?Well, no, that's not very likely.The man is a composer, not Steve Jablonsky. Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Well, it's not like Shore hasn't had his Share of similar constructs and themes (Bard Family/Bilbo, Smaug/Mirkwood, etc). That's besides the point.I think more likely than it being the Durin theme is that it's a little motif of its own. Faleel may have been joking, but his suggestion makes more sense, and the passage is nearly identical.Besides, if he really were to put a little thematic moment, wouldn't it be more likely to be associated with Bilbo than Durin as it seagues into the Shire theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Wait, it's nearly identical to what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Sweet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,796 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hmm..0:41 of Quest For Erebor: 4 notes1:46 of Mirkwood: 5 notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Wait, it's nearly identical to what?The bit around 1:50 of the extended Mirkwood cue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yea! Cause proto versions are AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,308 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hmm..0:41 of Quest For Erebor: 4 notes1:46 of Mirkwood: 5 notes.Well, that's kind of irrelevant. Does every motif have to be played the same way each time? Variation is supposed to make things more interesting Not to mention both instances quote the same 4 notes, Mirkwood just repeats one of them.Hmm..0:41 of Quest For Erebor: 4 notes1:46 of Mirkwood: 5 notes.So what? Shore decided to use a proto version of the theme or whatever.I buy KK's theory!I know I heard it somewhere in the BOTFA samples too (in the style of the DoS prologue). I can't listen to them right now, but if someone could confirm, might help the theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 I'm still shocked, shocked I tell you that Shore turned that Barrels Out Of Bond incidental music into a new theme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,796 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Gandalf the White in nature again? (Thats the only example I could think of, I am sure there is one that is closer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 More like turning Gandalf's Fireworks, Bree, Elven Heroics, etc into themes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doo_liss 6,796 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 More like turning Gandalf's Fireworks, Bree, Elven Heroics, etc into themesThat's still The Hobbit though, not LOTR I know I heard it somewhere in the BOTFA samples tooAt the end of Mithril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,647 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Whatever, dude.Don't you dude me!Wait, it's nearly identical to what? The bit around 1:50 of the extended Mirkwood cue.Don't you have a composer challenge to finish instead of scrutinizing 4-note motifs? Hehe ... KK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 39,851 Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Woah... guys.... check out this post from Gloin I just found concerning the bit we've been talking about! This figure from On the Doorstep (0:17-0:20 and then higher at 0:21-0:24) I had taken to be the same as the figure heard in The Quest for Erebor (0:41-0:48) which is listed at the beginning of this thread as "Smaug's A Theme". (No doubt this conversation has been had/dismissed before too, so apologies in advance.) EDIT: hahaha, and look at my reply! I'm not entirely convinced 0:41-0:48 of Quest For Erebor is Smaug's theme actually... I think it's a complicated variant of other themes much like 0:00-0:36 of the same track is. I knew then it wasn't Smaug's theme, then forgot again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,541 Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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