Michael Giacchino's Star Trek

[Ollie 1,140]

Well yea - the score is stupendous - it's varese's presentation that is incredibly lackluster

There's nothing wrong with Varese's presentation and I'm not the only one who feels that way either. But much like the Spartacus BS at FSM I'm tired of the beating that old horse is taking.

[Luke Skywalker 1,941]

Uh there are several things WRONG in this release.

Fact.

Nothing to fuss about TOO much, but something that can be definately be critisized.

Chorus fees are one thing, but microedits and loops are completely uncalled for.

If this as a big label, it would have been cut to pieces.

[Datameister 2,282]

I also want to reiterate that this is nowhere close to the fiasco that was TPM:UE.

That was a disaster, this isn't.

True. Considering that it comes from a non-film-score label within a year of the OST with so much new music in its original intended form, it's amazing. It just could have been better, and it's helpful to know in exactly what ways it could have been.

[Jay 39,593]

Now Varese is a non film score label???

I'm sorry, but without Varese, there would be no film score labels.

Not that they didn't drop the ball on this one, but still.

[Datameister 2,282]

Well, I mean, not one of the little bitty ones that can be consistently relied on to do (very close to) top-notch work on their albums.

But then again, I'm the furthest thing from an expert on all these labels, so I should probably shut up before I dig an even deeper hole for myself.

Speaking of holes, why is the track title spelled "A Whole in My Hearth"?

[Jay 39,593]

Yes I completely agree that if La La Land, FSM, or Intrada released the set, it would have been done properly. But this set is a small blemish on their 30 year history of releasing scores that never would have been released otherwise.

Yea I was wondering about that whole Hole/Whole thing today myself!

[OneBuckFilms 385]

I'm thoroughly enjoying the music, that much is certain.

I have to ask though, has this set, to your knowledge, changes any negative opinions of the score?

[Datameister 2,282]

I haven't really heard anyone's reaction outside this thread. I'd imagine the new music probably hasn't substantially changed any opinions. Although there's a lot of important material missing on the OST, material that lends the score a rather different flavor, it's still the same score. Same sound quality and performance, same themes, same general approach. I would hope that anyone with an open mind would appreciate the score at least a little more with the release of the DE, but I wouldn't expect it to cause any 180-degree reversals.

Also, I must say...this film must have the sexiest end credits ever. Visually speaking, I mean.

[Jay 39,593]

Anytime a score release goes from 45 minutes to 100 minutes, there's bound to be people who appreciate the score who never did before.

For me, I already appreciated the score from hearing the OST before seeing the film. Then seeing the film and how the themes worked in it, and hearing all the other music, I appreciated it more. Then when I downloaded it to work on my initial complete breakdown, I began to REALLY appreciate it as I/we discovered all the non-major lietmotivic themes, and I realized how GREAT some of the unreleased music was. Then the DVD came out in November and there was another new level of appreciation, especially when Joe was able to assemble his edit and there was so much clean music. Then this year we got the D.E. with not only (almost) everything we had already heard in great sound quality, but also all the unused music we had never heard before. Then I recently began to appreciate it even more for other reasons.

So its been a series of increasing appreciation for me, which has been quite the fun ride. Always a new layer of the score for me to appreciate. Probably would have been a different story if the complete recording sessions had leaked around the same time as the OST was out.

[Jay 39,593]

OK, wow. First of all thanks to fommes for pointing out this page to me:

http://www.propulsiv...orks/filmtv.php

If you scroll down to "Film & television music cues", you can play an mp3 of a cue called "Spock Bans Offshore Drilling". Now, I'm at work so can't exactly play at full volume, but it sounds to me like an alternate "Nero Death Experience" - am I right?

[Ollie 1,140]

Yes it does.

I know I'm used to hearing it with the choir but the orchestrations sound different. And right around the 2:20 mark where the Enterprise comes out of warp is missing the buildup to the theme.

[OneBuckFilms 385]

I have GOT to listen to THIS.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

And right around the 2:20 mark where the Enterprise comes out of warp is missing the buildup to the theme.

I still don't know why that was replaced in the film, it's one of the highlights of the album.

[OneBuckFilms 385]

And right around the 2:20 mark where the Enterprise comes out of warp is missing the buildup to the theme.

I still don't know why that was replaced in the film, it's one of the highlights of the album.

I suspect length. The moment the Enterprise emerges in the film is slightly longer than on the album, I think.

[Datameister 2,282]

Yay, a mystery solved! Now we know where the music that scores the jump in the film came from! Thank you to fommes for pointing this out and Jay for spreading the news! (And I think we can be 99.999% certain that this is indeed the original cue that "Nero Death Experience" replaced.)

EDIT: This is also seems to be where the alternate bit of "Chutes and Matter" was tracked from in the film, toward the end of the cue.

[OneBuckFilms 385]

Oh man, I REALLY need to hear this cue !!!

Datameister, does this mean another score edit may be in the works?

[Jay 39,593]

Yay, a mystery solved! Now we know where the music that scores the jump in the film came from! Thank you to fommes for pointing this out and Jay for spreading the news! (And I think we can be 99.999% certain that this is indeed the original cue that "Nero Death Experience" replaced.)

Except that Nero Death Experience is almost twice as long. I am thinking NDE is actually made up of TWO cues, one of which was rescored.

Oh man, I REALLY need to hear this cue !!!

Datameister, does this mean another score edit may be in the works?

There's no reason to need another person's edit of the score - I already posted the link where you can get the mp3, and the mp3 is a complete untouched cue with a clean opening and ending. It doesn't need to be merged into any other cues.

EDIT: This is also seems to be where the alternate bit of "Chutes and Matter" was tracked from in the film, toward the end of the cue.

Excellent!

[Datameister 2,282]

That would make sense. :cool:

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Err... I'm not sure how to obtain this mp3. Unless you're talking about recording it...

[Wojo 2,456]

Firefox + DownloadHelper

[OneBuckFilms 385]

I guess I'll have to add this to my version immediately after Nero Death Experience.

Nice find !!!

[Trent B 340]

Definitely an awesome find guys! I agree with Joe (Data) that this piece was stringed together to "rescore" the end of "Jehosafats" in the film.

[Henry B 51]

Spock Bans Offshore Drilling

Heehee.

[Jay 39,593]

Err... I'm not sure how to obtain this mp3. Unless you're talking about recording it...

All you have to do is look at the page source to see the location of all the mp3s on that page. The Star Trek one is http: //www.propulsivemusic.com/audio/FilmTV/OrchestrationReelCues/StarTrek_SpockBansOffshoreDrilling.mp3

Definitely an awesome find guys! I agree with Joe (Data) that this piece was stringed together to "rescore" the end of "Jehosafats" in the film.

So wait, is it where the ending of Jehosafats comes from, or the ending of Chutes and Matter?

[Datameister 2,282]

Both. :cool: "Jehosafats" would have played all the way through the jump, but they cut out a lot of material so that the cue ends right before the jump. Then they tracked in material from "Spock Bans Offshore Drilling" for the last part of the jump itself. A different part was also tracked in near the end of "Chutes and Matter."

[Trent B 340]

It's both. The end of "Jehosafats" in the film was strung together from this piece. The statement of the main theme we heard at the end of "Chutes and Matter" also was tracked from this version of the cue.

Edit: Joe and I must have posted at the same time.

Don't forget too the opening of "The Jump" when we see Pike entering the Narada via shuttle was tracked and pitched from the end of "Welcome Back, Spock".

[Jay 39,593]

So how about the film version opening of Jehosafats - the B Theme that plays as they all enter the shuttle. Was that tracked from the end credits or a true rescore?

[Datameister 2,282]

Yeah, that too, Trent. :cool:

EDIT: Jay, that's one of the mysteries that we've yet to solve. There's at least some material in there that we haven't heard anywhere else - the stuff right after the B theme, I mean. The B theme could be from the credits or something, I suppose, but I highly doubt it. I think that whole segment heard in the film is from some other unreleased cue that we don't have yet, perhaps written as an insert for that particular scene.

[Ollie 1,140]

I thought it was covered in one of the past issues of FSM online for the score restore segment?

[Jay 39,593]

The "Score Restore" feature gave us Giacchino's original version of the cue, sycned up the film.

We're talking about what is heard in the actual film itself, which differs from the album/score restore version.

[Ollie 1,140]

Yes I know, I thought perhaps it mentioned as to what was used for the actual film version.

I went back and found this quote:

The final film version of “Jehosafats” is drastically shortened, tracking the opening measures with an eight-note figure drawn from “Enterprising Young Men,” then leaping through the cue’s movements to finish just before the jump. The initial plunge is sans underscore, allowing muted FX to carry the scene until Pike’s approach of the Narada. Here, “Red Shirt Diaries” begins, and continues through Olson’s landing. The music consists of extracted and pitched layers from “Welcome Back, Spock” and “Nero Death Experience.”

I thought they had gone into more detail about what was used in the actual film.

[Jay 39,593]

Well we knew the 8-note figure (the B Theme as I call it) was tracked - I thought from the end credits, I guess its from EYM. Joe thinks the music heard directly after that can't be found anything else, but I'd guess its just pitch-shifted stuff from somewhere we haven't identified.

[Datameister 2,282]

Considering that they said "Red Shirt Diaries" was partially taken from "Nero Death Experience", I wouldn't put too much stock in the details of that account. If that statement of the B theme is taken from EYM, it's a definitely a completely different percussion track and probably a different take for the rest of the instruments. Similarly, the statement in the end credits has a different percussion track. (And I'm not talking about the type that Chris Tilton did - these sound like they were all recorded at the same time as the rest of the score.) Considering that we can't identify the passage that comes right after it at all, the most likely explanation is that this material is from another cue that we don't have.

[Trent B 340]

Considering that they said "Red Shirt Diaries" was partially taken from "Nero Death Experience", I wouldn't put too much stock in the details of that account. If that statement of the B theme is taken from EYM, it's a definitely a completely different percussion track and probably a different take for the rest of the instruments. Similarly, the statement in the end credits has a different percussion track. (And I'm not talking about the type that Chris Tilton did - these sound like they were all recorded at the same time as the rest of the score.) Considering that we can't identify the passage that comes right after it at all, the most likely explanation is that this material is from another cue that we don't have.

I have to agree with what Joe says here about that film version piece for the opening of "Jehosafats". Especially now that we know the end of the film version for "Jehosafats" was tracked from the early alternate of "Nero Death Experience".

[OneBuckFilms 385]

Datameister,

I'm going to see if I can play the editing game, and try to create a version of "Nero Death Experience" that matches the film version.

I did some creative editing to get a clean beginnin of "Main Title" (well, the EYM edit of "Star Trek" really), by taking part of the beginning of Enterprising Young Men, and adjusting the volume/fade in to the Main Title cue on the DE (a fun exercise), and it worked out well.

This allows me to have "Labor of Love" and "Star Trek (v3)" as clean, separate tracks. I still prefer your edit to the DE with regards to these two.

[Jay 39,593]

Labor Of Love was already available with a clean ending on the OST

And the Star Trek v3 is just an edit of EYM, why would you ever need that for anything? Giacchino's original Main Title is much better

[Luke Skywalker 1,941]

where was the original main title again?

[Datameister 2,282]

The original main title that Jay is talking about (I believe) is heard in the film as Kirk and Bones meet, and as the shuttle takes off afterward. Starts with quiet strings, builds into Alexander Courage's four-note theme, and then ends with a huge crescendo. It was inexplicably omitted from the DE, as I recall.

[OneBuckFilms 385]

Jason,

On the DE, Labor of Love mixes into the Main Title. I took Labor of Love from the OST (clean ending), then edited the start of the Main Title utilizing EYM to create a clean start to the cue.

If you have Giacchino's original Main Title, then I'd LOVE to get that, as I believe it was used in the movie in place of The Flask At Hand.

[Jay 39,593]

Yes, Star Trek (v2) is heard in the film in place of The Flask At Hand

I've honestly never heard Star Trek (v1), though from Tilton's description in this thread, it's very similar to The Flask At Hand.

[OneBuckFilms 385]

Well, I listened to this cue, and it's certainly a high energy one.

Definately right on the money for the dive sequence and the alternate piece for the drill finght (What do we do now? This !!!).

Good stuff

[DaHaK 0]

So, just out of curiosity, have the cues with the missing choir ever turned up?

[Luke Skywalker 1,941]

not that i am aware of.

[Corellian2019 419]

I have 6 cues w/ restored choir available on my trading list...

[John Crichton 4]

No official release, no.

[fommes 155]

I have 6 cues w/ restored choir available on my trading list...

From DVD-rips?

[OneBuckFilms 385]

Not sure where these would come from.

[Corellian2019 419]

No, the cues I'm referring to have no sound effects.

[ZackR 95]

I have those tracks too. They are not DVD rips.

[DaHaK 0]

I have them as well, which is why I was asking. I was wondering if anyone knew where they came from? They sound pretty authentic to me.