John Williams' ROSEWOOD (1997) - 2013 2CD Expanded Edition from La-La Land Records

[Sharkissimo 1,974]

I like turtles.

[Ollie 1,140]

Damn you beat me to it.

[crocodile 8,539]

I think I enjoy the original album more than the complete score for Rosewood.

Can you elaborate?

Karol

[Marian Schedenig 9,100]

I like The Accidental Tourist

It certainly has a lovely theme.

[crocodile 8,539]

It arrived today.

Karol

[Incanus 5,816]

It arrived today.

Karol

Fingers crossed that mine will arrive soon as well. I am really excited to hear the complete film score.

[Koray Savas 2,254]

I think I enjoy the original album more than the complete score for Rosewood.

Can you elaborate?

Karol

Perhaps it's the lack of the choral tracks or the longer running time of more underscore type cues that bog it down, but I need to listen to it again.

[Jay 39,582]

The ideal presentation would obviously be a playlist comprised of Disc 1 with the 3 spiritual tracks added in their intended spots

[crocodile 8,539]

That would have been ideal. The songs are very good, actually and they would lighten things up a bit (no pun intended).

After my first listen I can say is that, while an impressive work, it's not the best listening experience. It might change, though.

Karol

[Alejandro 28]

Well I've never heard the OST before so I won't be able to comment on the difference from that if that's what you mean

That's odd. You've never heard Rosewood before?

[Jay 39,582]

Correct.

[Wojo 2,456]

I never did either and still haven't ordered this.

[Incanus 5,816]

My copy finally arrived! (along with The Fury)

EDIT

After first listen I have to say I like this new set a lot. The complete score reveals a lot more nuances in the underscore and some more of the unusual sounds Williams employed in the score can be heard with clarity here. I really appreciate this music even more now. But I also think the gospel songs should be included into the score presentation to make it a truly satisfying experience, not only for variety but because they are part the thematic structure of the score itself.

The way the 2-disc set is compiled is a curious in one regard. It delegates all vocal performances of the gospel material on disc 2, which contains the score album and the pure orchestral score is presented on disc 1. One reason for this is of course because of the running time of the score, 78 minutes. But the curiosity is that the film versions of cues featuring either Shirley Caesar or the choir are still left on disc 2 as part of the album presentation, while disc 1 features as far as I can surmise the purely orchestral alternates of these sections. I know this must have been done to present us these alternate pure orchestral takes plus not repeating the same material twice but it took me a bit by surprise at first.

[crocodile 8,539]

Must be the legal requirement and limited space.

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,941]

My copy finally arrived! (along with The Fury)

EDIT

After first listen I have to say I like this new set a lot. The complete score reveals a lot more nuances in the underscore and some more of the unusual sounds Williams employed in the score can be heard with clarity here. I really appreciate this music even more now. But I also think the gospel songs should be included into the score presentation to make it a truly satisfying experience, not only for variety but because they are part the thematic structure of the score itself.

The way the 2-disc set is compiled is a curious in one regard. It delegates all vocal performances of the gospel material on disc 2, which contains the score album and the pure orchestral score is presented on disc 1. One reason for this is of course because of the running time of the score, 78 minutes. But the curiosity is that the film versions of cues featuring either Shirley Caesar or the choir are still left on disc 2 as part of the album presentation, while disc 1 features as far as I can surmise the purely orchestral alternates of these sections. I know this must have been done to present us these alternate pure orchestral takes plus not repeating the same material twice but it took me a bit by surprise at first.

can all the choir pieces be mixed with the CD1 cues seamlessly?

If not... then i dont think this was a good idea. (they should have presented the choir cues as bonus tracks in CD2)

[Jay 39,582]

can all the choir pieces be mixed with the CD1 cues seamlessly?

If not... then i dont think this was a good idea. (they should have presented the choir cues as bonus tracks in CD2)

From what I understand, disc 2 had to include the exact original OST and nothing more (or less).

[King Mark 3,728]

So the old OST is completely obsolete?

[Jay 39,582]

Disc 2 of this set IS the old OST

[Incanus 5,816]

So it was more or less contractual to include the OST on disc 2 and they didn't want to reprise material for no reason so they left the vocal performances on disc 2 and gave us orchestral takes on disc 1? This makes sense in a weird record/film company contractual way.

[Sharkissimo 1,974]

What's the flute-like instrument at 1:00 in "Prayers at Dinner"?

[Doo_liss 6,496]

A Recorder perhaps?

[Incanus 5,816]

Yes it is a recorder.

[filmmusic 2,220]

to those who have got their copy:

does it say in the liner notes about the original score and how Williams replaced the original composer?

[Jay 39,582]

Yep

[filmmusic 2,220]

Yep

Ok, thanks!

[Incanus 5,816]

Yes Jeff Bond makes a mention of it in the liner notes but of course doesn't go into detail. Still it is fairly obvious when you take a listen of Wynton Marsalis' music (released separately by Marsalis and available on album called Reeltime), why it was replaced.

[Crimson Nagus 43]

Has anyone figured out the best order if you want to combine the 2 disc into one playlist, like what is the proper order for the songs from the ost?

[Incanus 5,816]

I posted this in the What Is the Last Score You Listened thread but might as well repeat it here.

Here is my playlist. I had to do so some music editing but now it includes both of Shirley Caesar's solos and the 3 gospel songs. It basically contains the disc 1 of LLL set plus that aforementioned extra material from disc 2. I do not know if this is a 100% chronological as I have not seen the film in years and Jeff Bond's liner notes are not entirely exact how all the songs should be placed but it is a good approximate guess

1.Rosewood
2.The Town of Sumner
3.The Arrival of Mann
4.Mann Goes Shopping/Mann Meets Scrappie
5.Prayers at Dinner/The Wrights/War Drums
6.Scrappie and Mann Bond/The Beating
7.False Accusation
8.The Lie/Arresting Aaron
9.Roughing up Aaron/Aaron in Jail
10.Sam's Murder
11. Discovering Sam's Body/Mann's First Exit
12. Exchanging Gifts/Cracker Mob
13. Sarah is Shot/Attack on the House (I used the film version with the vocal solo from disc 2 as the opening and edited it to the purely orchestral alternate found on disc 1. It works surprisingly well.)
14.Kids to the Woods/The House Burns
15.Look Down, Lord
16.The Fire/Fanny's Guilt
17.The Klan Gathers/Wright's Decision/The Crackers Gather
18.Mann Rescues the Kids
19.Hide the Man, John/Wright's Dilemma/We Mee at Eight
20.Mann Leads the Group
21.Crossing the Road
22. The Capture of Mann/Mann's Great Escape
23. The Burning Town (Alternate & Film Version) (Here I open with the orchestral drums and edit the soloist film version found on disc 2 into the material. As no clean ending for Shirley Caesar's performance is available I let the lamenting strings that follow the vocal solo continue until I found a suitable place where I could fade out the piece satisfyingly.)
24. Light My way
25. The Freedom Train

Playing these two pieces back to back creates an uplifting choral finale to the whole dramatic arc before the subsequent tracks wind the musical drama to a finish. Jeff Bond speculated in the liner notes that Freedom Train might have been meant to play during the second half of the train sequence.
26. Sylvester Joins the Group (I cut the drums of The Burning Town section out, the music opening with the solo horn but I believe this whole track can be found on disc 2 track 14 Mann at Rosewood so you don't actually have to do any editing)
27. After the Fire
28. End Titles

[fommes 155]

You should post this in the Chrono Film Score thread - so I'm not the only one actually posting there

[filmmusic 2,220]

Just got my cd (along with Star Trek 3 cd) from LALALAND!

and for the first time ever, the cases are unbroken!!!

[fommes 155]

Just the same for me - they added extra padding

[indy4 155]

Finally got a chance to listen to this--wow! I've had the OST for about a year, but I really haven't given it the attention it deserves. it is easily as thematically diverse, intricate and intriguing as any of JW's 90s scores. I can recall three prominent, long-lined themes, not including all the vocal stuff, and I'm sure there's more that I will notice on further listens. Definitely a score I will be returning to.

I also read the liner notes, which were of course great. One question that I don't think was addressed: do we know where the lyrics for the songs came from? I recall a pic of JW in the 90s with a book of "negro poetry," but that could have been for "Dry Your Tears, Afrika." They're simple enough that I wouldn't be surprised if JW wrote them, even though he's not usually a lyricist, but knowing him he probably took them from some poem. Anybody know?

[Incanus 5,816]

I would assume that Williams himself wrote the lyrics as there is no one else credited for them on either the original release or the LLL one. I was actually intrigued by the very same thing after reading the liner notes.

Any thoughts Miguel?

[publicist 4,647]

I cut both albums down to one 60 minute piece and it flows much better than the old album. To put the Scrappie material in the beginning and let the BURNING TOWN/MANN AT ROSEWOOD play as the towering finale/resolution gives the score much more narrative flow than Williams' approach which drops dry suspense material at all places.

[Not Mr. Big 4,739]

I'm not the biggest fan of Rosewood's score. Would this still be worth buying?

[indy4 155]

Probably not

[crocodile 8,539]

If you're not a fan, then I wouldn't recommend it.

Let's put it this way, no unreleased fanfares, apocalyptic choral pieces, and frenetic action tracks to be found there.

Karol

[Richard P 4,211]

I wasn't a big fan of the score, but I found 45 minutes of solid material. I found there were just a lot of dull moments to get rid of.

[Naïve Old Fart 10,445]

If you're not a fan, then I wouldn't recommend it.

Let's put it this way, no unreleased fanfares, apocalyptic choral pieces, and frenetic action tracks to be found there.

Karol

You are right, Croc, and it's all the better for it! Just good, ole-fashioned solid writing, with a Southern lilt, and some fantastic gospel thrown in for good measure. "Look Down, Lord" is worth the asking price, alone. A truly underrated JW gem!

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

Should I have this? What about feeding all my kids? Oh well, they can gnaw their nails...and listen to some Rosewood.

edit: Ordered

JW doesn't rock anymore

[Incanus 5,816]

JW doesn't rock anymore

Excuse me? Just because your children will starve for some high quality music doesn't mean that JW doesn't rock anymore. Priorities man, priorities! And I thought you were a fan of the Maestro!

[indy4 155]

Question: is there any material on disc 2 (other than the vocal stuff) that is not on disc 1? Or is it all just rearranged versions of disc 1?

[Incanus 5,816]

As the liner notes say there are a couple of short alternate passages on Disc 2 tracks (Hounds of Sumner contains film version and part of an alternate of Arresting Aaron) and one odd overlay of source music (found on track Trouble in Town) on one track but otherwise all the music is found on Disc 1. Williams did a very good job in condensing the score for the OST though. I like the way he joined several similarly styled cues together, like on the track Town of Sumner where he used three pieces featuring the guitar to form a suite of sorts, which works very well.

[indy4 155]

Thanks!

[Incanus 5,816]

I posted a sort of complete score track list on the previous page of this thread. That might be of some help.

[indy4 155]

Ohh, looks like a great resource for creating my personal version--thanks!!

[Marian Schedenig 9,100]

Williams did a very good job in condensing the score for the OST though. I like the way he joined several similarly styled cues together, like on the track Town of Sumner where he used three pieces featuring the guitar to form a suite of sorts, which works very well.

I have to say though, while Rosewood (the first album cue) works well as an opener, it makes much more sense as the End Titles on CD 1.

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

JW doesn't rock anymore

Excuse me? Just because your children will starve for some high quality music doesn't mean that JW doesn't rock anymore. Priorities man, priorities! And I thought you were a fan of the Maestro!

Hah!

I thought JWROCKS was some kind of discount code but maybe it was a joke.

Anyway, the CD came today, fun to hear a score that is in your shelf but never listened to it. Sounds great. Interesting chords.

[Incanus 5,816]

On 10/07/2013 at 1:42 AM, Pasi Tiitinen said:

On 01/07/2013 at 7:22 AM, Incanus said:

On 01/07/2013 at 12:26 AM, Pasi Tiitinen said:

JW doesn't rock anymore

Excuse me? Just because your children will starve for some high quality music doesn't mean that JW doesn't rock anymore. Priorities man, priorities! And I thought you were a fan of the Maestro!

Hah!

I thought JWROCKS was some kind of discount code but maybe it was a joke.

Anyway, the CD came today, fun to hear a score that is in your shelf but never listened to it. Sounds great. Interesting chords.

Hehehe I missed your little joke there entirely.

 

So you have had Rosewood in your collection before but have not listened to it until you got the expanded set? Now that is curious behaviour for a JW fan. Should I doubt your loyalties to the Master?

 

The score does sound great and there are many great little moments on the Disc 1 that were absent from the OST. The soundtrack on the whole is somewhat low key outside a few dramatic setpieces but the beauty is in the nuances and the atmosphere. Also there are a few instances where Williams pulls out really interesting and wonderful grooves, rhythms and melodies that you wish could have been expanded but stop rather short just when you think they should kick to a higher gear. Alas this is the nature of film music.

 

Some of the material in this score foreshadow Williams' darker post 2000 music but it is in general his dramatic scores of the mid-90's onwards from which JW draws much stylistic influences for his two later Prequel scores and the likes of War of the Worlds, Minority Report etc.

 

I just saw the film again and here is an updated chronological track list:

 

1.Rosewood

2.The Town of Sumner

3.The Arrival of Mann

4.Mann Goes Shopping/Mann Meets Scrappie

5.Prayers at Dinner/The Wrights/War Drums

6.Scrappie and Mann Bond/The Beating

7.False Accusation

8.The Lie/Arresting Aaron

9.Roughing up Aaron/Aaron in Jail

10.Sam's Murder

11. Discovering Sam's Body/Mann's First Exit

12. Exchanging Gifts/Cracker Mob

A short fragment of Look Down Lord plays for the church scene between Exchanging Gifts and Cracker Mob.

13. Sarah is Shot/Attack on the House (I used the film version with the vocal solo from disc 2 as the opening and edited it to the purely orchestral alternate found on disc 1. It works surprisingly well.)

14.Kids to the Woods/The House Burns

15.The Fire/Fanny's Guilt

16.Look Down Lord (in the film only a short passage plays at this point)

17.The Klan Gathers/Wright's Decision/The Crackers Gather

18.Mann Rescues the Kids

19.Hide the Man, John/Wright's Dilemma/We Mee at Eight

20.Mann Leads the Group

21.Crossing the Road

22. The Capture of Mann/Mann's Great Escape

23. The Burning Town (Alternate & Film Version) (Here I open with the orchestral drums and edit the soloist film version found on disc 2 into the material. As no clean ending for Shirley Caesar's performance is available I let the lamenting strings that follow the vocal solo continue until I found a suitable place where I could fade out the piece satisfyingly.)

24. Light My way

25. The Freedom Train (Unused)

Playing these two pieces back to back creates an uplifting choral finale to the whole dramatic arc before the subsequent tracks wind the musical drama to a finish. Jeff Bond speculated in the liner notes that Freedom Train might have been meant to play during the second half of the train sequence.

26. Sylvester Joins the Group (I cut the drums of The Burning Town section out, the music opening with the solo horn but I believe this whole track can be found on disc 2 track 14 Mann at Rosewood so you don't actually have to do any editing)

27. After the Fire

Look Down Lord is reprised (the full track) at the beginning of the end credit roll before the actual End Titles.

28. End Titles

[Naïve Old Fart 10,445]

Should I have this? What about feeding all my kids? Oh well, they can gnaw their nails...and listen to some Rosewood.

edit: Ordered

JW doesn't rock anymore

Pasi, if you ever think that your kid's food intake is more important than "Rosewood"'s CDs, then I'll gladly buy them off you (that's "Rosewood", not your kids!).

At 81 years of age, JW can afford not to rock! He still swings, and that's good enough for me.

#Don't mean a thing,

If it ain't got the ability to swing#