Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Jay 39,582]

They Dialed out the beginning to have no music play for Bilbo's initial viewing of the area, then kind of quickly bring in the missing part to catch up with the music for him seeing Erebor.

[Doo_liss 6,496]

Also, Beyond the Forest seems to have a slight intro (though it could have been done editorially)

[MedigoScan 333]

They Dialed out the beginning to have no music play for Bilbo's initial viewing of the area, then kind of quickly bring in the missing part to catch up with the music for him seeing Erebor.

it couldnt have been more than a handful of seconds by my recollection

[crocodile 8,539]

Interview with Conrad Pope (I think it starts 24 minutes in)

Wonderful interview. Conrad is one of the most no-nonsense, down-to-earth, honest professionals in the field. It's great to hear and understand "how it's done". It really sheds light on the real job of film scoring.

Fantastic interview! Really offers an in-depth insider's look into the film music scene. And its great to hear it from so seasoned a professional as Conrad Pope!

Very interesting, Excellent, in fact - thanks for sharing.

Karol

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,308]

I don't think the Hobbit would work as nicely in that "symphony" format as LotR did. So I doubt we'll see that happen.

But then again, I always kind of wished The LotR Symphony was more than just a compilation of cues and rather a newly developed suite form of the work for the concert hall (much like Williams did with works like Memoirs of a Geisha).

[Doo_liss 6,496]

Well, Shore's scores are already like a "symphony"/Opera, so..

[Doo_liss 6,496]

Also, there seems to be an insert in Wilderland in the film, but its dialed out, the 12 minute documentary rip I posted above includes it (but in mono with artifacts).

Also, MedigoScan's breakdown of Kingsfoil is a little inaccurate, Kingsfoil is split into three parts in the film.

it goes:

First part, Elven healing motif, Second part.

[Incanus 5,816]

Interview with Conrad Pope (I think it starts 24 minutes in)

Wonderful interview. Conrad is one of the most no-nonsense, down-to-earth, honest professionals in the field. It's great to hear and understand "how it's done". It really sheds light on the real job of film scoring.

Fantastic interview! Really offers an in-depth insider's look into the film music scene. And its great to hear it from so seasoned a professional as Conrad Pope!

Very interesting, Excellent, in fact - thanks for sharing.

Karol

Extremely interesting interview indeed. Mr. Pope is as eloquent and illuminating as he is passionate about the craft and art of music. It was simply a joy to listen to him talk and I wish he could have talked for another hour. They also tied the DoS talk to the current film music trends and atmosphere in the current Hollywood quite nicely.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Btw, I'm setting the Song of Beren and Luthien (well, a good part of it) to Shore's theme for Tauriel and Kili. I hope to finish it soon.

[Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260]

Awesome! I've had the desire to set some Elvish poetry for a while now.

[gkgyver 1,647]

I only dread to mock up the whole thing. It's not really my favourite work.

[Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260]

I hear you. It's grueling and doesn't motivate you to finish like the prospect of having real musicians interpret it does. But the feeling of finishing a good mockup is always great.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Well, the feeling of having real musicians interpret it is something I never have, so that's a minus

[Jay 39,582]

Well I've finally gone through the entire movie and figured out the chronological order! And here it is:

(Track names in quotations marks are either my names for split cues, or better names for OST tracks where the existing title did not describe the scene it scored)

1-01 The Quest For Erebor (3:22)

1-02 Wilderland (4:56)

1-03 "War Is Coming" (2:54)

1-04 The House of Beorn (4:52)

1-05 Mirkwood (5:31)

1-06 Flies And Spiders (9:35)

1-07 The Woodland Realm (5:14)

1-08 Feast Of Starlight (2:48)

1-09 Barrels Out Of Bond (1:50)

1-10 The Forest River (5:10)

1-12 The High Fells (3:38)

1-11 Bard, A Man Of Lake-Town (3:18)

1-13 The Nature of Evil (3:20)

1-14 Protector Of The Common Folk (3:35)

2-01 "Entering Lake-town" (3:33)

2-02 "Girion / Part Of This World" (4:15)

2-03B [2:24-end] "Captured" (0:40)

2-03A [0:00-2:24] "All Will Share In The Wealth Of The Mountain" (2:24)

2-04 In The Shadow Of The Mountain (2:15)

2-05A [0:00-1:26] "A Spell Of Concealment / The Hidden Door" (1:26)

2-06 On The Doorstep (7:46)

2-11A [0:00-0:18] "We Feed It To The Pigs" (0:18)

2-07A [0:00-0:45] "The Courage Of Hobbits" (0:45)

2-05B [1:26-end] "Sauron" (1:55)

2-07B [0:45-end] "Smaug's Chamber" (2:15)

2-08 Inside Information (3:48)

2-12B [2:33-5:18] "Smaug The Stupendous" (2:45)

2-11B [0:18-3:12] "The Black Arrow" (2:54)

2-10 "Darkness Is Coming" (3:41)

2-12D [6:05-end] "Bilbo Escapes" (0:25)

2-11C [3:12-5:48] "Lake-town Attack" (2:36)

2-09A [0:00-0:38] "Athelas" (0:38)

2-12A [0:00-2:33] "The Arkenstone" (2:33)

2-09C [1:56-end] "Kili's Vision" (0:29)

2-12C [5:18-6:05] "Crossing The Bridge" (0:47)

2-09B [0:38-1:56] "She Walks In Starlight" (1:18)

2-11D [5:48-end] "Thorin's Plan / Legolas vs Bolg" (4:19)

2-13 "The Forges" (5:16)

2-14 I See Fire (5:00)

2-15 Beyond The Forest (5:25)

Two interesting things I learned while studying the movie so closely: One is that a LOT of music is dialed out, more than just the obvious "Flies and Spiders" and "The Forest River" bits. Almost every track had a section removed to have no score play instead! And second is that I found some tracked music in the score, not a lot but there absolutely is some!

I'm off to bed, hopefully I can provide more details tomorrow!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

Thank you!

[BloodBoal 7,541]

Impressive, LeBlanc! Good job!

[MedigoScan 333]

seems about right, I didnt notice Smaug's theme also played during the bridge scene

The only piece I couldn't identify was this:

2-11E [9:42-end] "???" (0:13)

Any ideas?

I could have sworn that played when Legolas chased Bolg over the bridge, if not then it was probably silenced anyway

it doesnt sound like any of the musical inserts I heard during the whole Smaug section of the movie

[BloodBoal 7,541]

[Incanus 5,816]

Wow great work Jason! I am really intrigued to test how will the score fare in chronological order compared to how it is arranged on the album.

[Jay 39,582]

I didnt notice Smaug's theme also played during the bridge scene

A version of Smaug's Theme is tracked into the bridge scene in the film, replacing the original music as heard on the OST.

[Jay 39,582]

I corrected some tiny mistakes I made on last night's chronological listing post, see above.

[BloodBoal 7,541]

[Jay 39,582]

Yea, I also think it's meant for something that happens right after that part, but it isn't used in the film. It does sound similar to the music that played just before it though, and anyone making a chronological edit should just leave it where it is.

Oh! An incidentally, I didn't hear the 7 seconds of music on the Standard version of Spell of Concealment anywhere in the film. Though, 0:31-0:53 of that track is dialed out in the film anyway, all of Gandalf's initial exploration is unscored in the film. it probably would have gone somewhere in there.

[Kühni 484]

.

[Jay 39,582]

What do you think of the Smaug material?

[Incanus 5,816]

Oh no Kühni has lost his faith! Oh the horror, the horror....

[Doo_liss 6,496]

Kuhni's a wimp.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,308]

I had this long response for you that I had written on my phone before my battery died and it was lost forever. So for now, I'll just say I find what you say interesting, if curious. I'd certainly like to read that 2500 word essay someday to clear things up. I'd like to hear what you'd have to say about some of the merits of this score that I've grown fond of, and that I haven't heard much about from you. The fact that you find the Mirkwood theme the best new idea is also something I find interesting (I think its one of the weaker ideas in the score).

Anyways, have a happy new year my friend!

[Doo_liss 6,496]

I gotta say, I am really warming up to Beorn's theme.

[gkgyver 1,647]

It's very evocative.

[Doo_liss 6,496]

I love that brooding statement in Wilderland (While Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves are discussing him)

[Incanus 5,816]

Beorn's theme captures the very grim and dangerous "wild" side of him very well I have to admit as brief as his appearance is in the film. I would say his motif really blends into the textures of the score. Naturally PJs dark and foreboding approach to introducing him and his abode affected the way Shore approached him musically.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

For those who can't get enough of I See Fire's Ed Sheeran. Here is a segment of the pop quiz Never Mind The Buzzcocks featuring him.

Here is the full ep if you want to experience the full brilliance of Sheeran!

[Quintus 5,454]

I can't even remember Beorn's "theme".

I dunno, what are your guys theme eligibility rules? See I've grown up with movie music whose themes were whistleable in the car on the way home. They weren't really weak sauce motifs which required intense cue repeat listens before their hook settled in, know what I mean?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

Be careful Lee. You might have just riled the beasts here! Shore Themes are all equally captivating and memorable. And the fact that you could not recall them is YOUR fault, not his

[Incanus 5,816]

Be careful Lee. You might have just riled the beasts here! Shore Themes are all equally captivating and memorable. And the fact that you could not recall them is YOUR fault, not his

You guys crack me.

If themes for Beorn, Mirkwood, Lake-town or anything in this score do not float your boat, that is fine. I am not sure why do you have to keep harping people about liking them when you do not. And for the record I do prefer the more hummable themes from this score as well but I also like these smaller motifs quite a lot despite them being less memorable than the bigger ones.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

You haven't been reading my stuff at all if you think I don't like that stuff. I love getting into a score and discovering all the little sub themes.

But I think there is nothing wrong with a film having a MAIN THEME or two. You know, like the old days...

[Incanus 5,816]

You haven't been reading my stuff at all if you think I don't like that stuff. I love getting into a score and discovering all the little sub themes.

But I think there is nothing wrong with a film having a MAIN THEME or two. You know, like the old days...

Well to me the film does have a couple of strong main themes but yes yes not on the level of Fellowship, Rohan or Gondor theme in terms of centrality and frequent usage.

What was interesting aspect or idea behind this score (as Doug Adams mentioned in the Tracksounds podcast) was that they wanted to make this music feel like something different and very new since the comfortable side of the Misty Mountains was now left behind and they had stepped into the much more scary, dark and unexplored Wilderland. That also meant losing the Misty Mountains Theme, which had become the Fellowship theme of the AUJ score to reflect this entirely new chapter that was perilous and urgent. It does indeed present a situation where the audience along with the characters have to adapt to a new situation without so much old and familiar to latch onto. Shore doesn't really address the dwarven company as much as he does their new surroundings until they reach Lake-town where he unveils gradually the House of Durin theme but before that there is no single idea that would tie things together.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

My main gripe about the way themes are treated in the discussion here, and it's been this was since Doug released his CR notes is that every aspect of what i would consider a theme is classified and categorized as a theme in it's own right.

I dont see that at all with discussions about other scores.

The opening rhythm of The Imperial March isnt generally describes as a theme onto it's own. Yet if Doug had written a book about it we would be called it the Approach Of The Empire theme. The middle part would be the Vaders Hop step variation.

[BloodBoal 7,541]

My main gripe about the way themes are treated in the discussion here is that every aspect of what i would consider a theme is classified and categorized as a theme in it's own right.

Yeah, I can see why that bothers you...

[Incanus 5,816]

My main gripe about the way themes are treated in the discussion here, and it's been this was since Doug released his CR notes is that every aspect of what i would consider a theme is classified and categorized as a theme in it's own right.

I dont see that at all with discussions about other scores.

The opening rhythm of The Imperial March isnt generally describes as a theme onto it's own. Yet if Doug had written a book about it we would be called it the Approach Of The Empire theme. The middle part would be the Vaders Hop step variation.

It is because of the way Shore's themes (and shorter ideas, which I would call motifs) are constructed I suppose. They are not just part of the one single theme but form a recurring idea that can appear independently of longer themes. It is more about how the composer conceived these ideas and how they chose to categorize and present them in writing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

They are not just part of the one single theme but form a recurring idea that can appear independently of longer themes.

Yeah. Because Williams, Goldsmith, Hermann, etc etc never did that!

Sigh.

[Incanus 5,816]

They are not just part of the one single theme but form a recurring idea that can appear independently of longer themes.

Yeah. Because Williams, Goldsmith, Hermann, etc etc never did that!

Sigh.

Sigh. As I said before you can choose to box and label these ideas as you like. Mr. Shore and Mr. Adams have chosen one way but it is not the only way.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

But if I choose to label it differently, Jason gets pissy with me. The Gospel of Doug must be respected.

[Incanus 5,816]

But if I choose to label it differently, Jason gets pissy with me. The Gospel of Doug must be respected.

I guess when there is the "official" way handle at these themes or leitmotifs people tend to think it is more convenient and clear to speak about them in those official terms to avoid confusion.

I think the main reason for having those 90+ leitmotifs for LotR in Doug's book is to clarify the composer's intent and idea concerning each and invidual motif as they most often carry specific meaning to the drama, be it a small and often unnoticeable one or a motif derived from another theme (as with these cultural families of themes it often happens) but one that gains a new independent leitmotivic meaning. It is about clarity and in part I guess honoring the composer's meticulous intents and work behind the music. Undoubtedly it might seem too intricate or needlessly meticulous to make often such subtle distinctions but the same approach is applied e.g. to Wagner's Ring cycle and its huge web of themes, which are often derived from other themes in the same thematic root or family.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

I love it when you treat me like an infant, I really do.

[Incanus 5,816]

Well you do seem to be in the phase where every question is followed by another question, usually the classic "why?"

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,420]

And you are talking to be like you are a childrens TV presenter and I'm your glove puppet side-kick