No Expanded The Reivers or The Cowboys coming any time soon

[Jay 39,891]

MV Gerhard from La-La Land Records just said so in this FSM thread:

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=97236&forumID=1&archive=0

FSM'ers, any thoughts on the possibility of Williams' "The Reivers" getting a remaster/expansion? Trying to decide wether or not to buy the 33 min 1995 release now, or hold out...

Buy it. It's a rights mess. May not happen for awhile

MV

Should have asked about "The Cowboys" as well. That is also on my buy/not buy list at the moment. Thanks!

Varese owns it in perp

MV

[Incanus 5,823]

Yeah I chanced upon that post at FSM too. I guess I have to get both ASAP in their current form. It is rather embarrasing that I do not own these two classics yet.

[Jay 39,891]

Neither do I

[Thor 8,545]

No problem. The existing soundtracks are perfectly fine the way they are.

I would agree that they could be reissued, though (perhaps with improved sound) for those who can't afford to buy them in their current, rare availability.

[Brónach 1,307]

I haven't listened to either of these scores yet. I'm curious.

The Reivers release is only 33 minutes? Ugh.

[Miguel Andrade 1,391]

The Cowboys could use an expansion. There is quite some music that wasn't included on the Varese release and was part of the old promotional LP. On top of that, there are at least some two or three cues not available on either of them.

As for The Reivers, I haven't watched the film in a long while, but I don't recall the CD missing much music... or maybe the music on disc are diferent recordings than the ones used on the soundtrack.

[publicist 4,647]

Neither do I

You both suck!

As for The Reivers, I haven't watched the film in a long while, but I don't recall the CD missing much music... or maybe the music on disc are diferent recordings than the ones used on the soundtrack.

As i recall, it's the original score and there is music on the disc not in the film. This one is more than sufficient on CD, just the sound sucks bad.

Thank god for the STAGE AND SCREEN from Sony.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Neither do I

Saddened to learn that you're not a real John Williams fan!

[Jay 39,891]

It's been out of print an expensive for as long as I've had the means to purchase random film score CDs to movies I've never seen. Plus once all the expanded editions starting coming out every week circa 2007 or so, it didn't make sense for me to pick up old scores I didn't have yet since it seemed everything was getting expanded. Worked out in my favor for stuff like Jane Eyre, 1941, and others, but it stinks I don't have The Reivers, Cowboys, Dracula, or Jaws II, and might not unless various legal problems and/or Varese's release desires change.

[Thor 8,545]

It's too bad that we've come to a place in time where people hesitate to purchase (perfectly fine) soundtrack albums because an expansion may or may not be coming down the road -- and I say that regardless of my general dislike of the C&C. They're missing out on a lot of great stuff, IMO. Of course, I DO understand it when steep prices/rarity is a factor.

[Jay 39,891]

You don't understand. I have EVERY Williams CD that's EVER been made that is affordable, or was at some point after 2005 or so.

The only ones I don't have (with current lowest Amazon used price listed after each title) are:

Jaws II ($63)

The Reivers ($58)

Dracula ($56)

Eiger Sanction ($56)

Fitzwilly ($53)

The Cowboys ($21)

Again - that is the currently lowest USED price on Amazon - the prices for sealed copies of these are through the roof!!

Not everyone is the same age as you, or got into film score collecting at the same time as you.

There are 15 year old John Williams fans here who have no means to buy these albums (and many others!). They should all be re-issued, expanded or not.

[Thor 8,545]

I agree with you. Those are some wild prices. It proves to me that I've been out of the loop, collecting-wise, for quite some time since I 'completed' my Williams collection several years ago when those prices were quite different.

At least THE COWBOYS is affordable! And since no expansion is forthcoming, as you say, I recommend to take the plunge. It's a superb score, by far the best he's done in the western genre, IMO (even though I have serious issues with the film).

[Jay 39,891]

I've obviously heard all those scores, I just don't own the physical CDs. I'm not going to waste money on 2nd hand copies that might come from some smoker's house who didn't take care of them, with ripped booklets, fingerprints, and cofee stains on them when an expanded release or straight re-issue is likely to come out in my lifetime. I can wait.

[Thor 8,545]

Point taken.

[Jay 39,891]

I'm very glad I have the LLL Jane Eyre, with its remastered sound, gorgeous Jim Titus artwork, and the lengthy liner notes by Jeff Eldridge instead of some old copy mastered in the early 90s when CDs were new technology and has no liner notes.

[Richard P 4,292]

Should have asked about "The Cowboys" as well. That is also on my buy/not buy list at the moment. Thanks!

Varese owns it in perp

MV

[Jay 39,891]

The annoying thing about Varese is that they snatched up the perpetuity rights to scores like The Cowboys and others, and then don't even keep the OSTs in print, leading to no one being able to buy them. It's not right!

[Richard P 4,292]

I can only assume other labels (such as LLL) have enquired about acquiring rights and Varese has said no.

They've become a bigger barrier to expanding scores than some studios...

[TheTennisBallKid 17]

Jaws II ($63)

The Reivers ($58)

Dracula ($56)

Eiger Sanction ($56)

Fitzwilly ($53)

The Cowboys ($21)

I've bought all of those except Fitzwilly and Jaws2 secondhand on Amazon in the past year and a half or so (just bought The Cowboys a few minutes ago spurred on by this thread, actually), and I don't think I paid more than $25 for any of them.

Not saying that these aren't hard to get, or that I wouldn't like to see these reissued/expanded (I certainly would!), but if you watch over a long period of time, you will see better prices on most of those.

Anyway, The Reivers, excellent score, but publicist is right, the sound is not very good, and I'm anything but an audiophile. Of the above list (that I've heard), only Dracula is in more dire need of some sort of remaster.

[indy4 155]

Don't forget, The Cowboys has already been expanded!

http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=62887&forumID=1&archive=0

[Thor 8,545]

[nevermind]

[fommes 156]

There's been some postings in this thread mentioning the soundtrack to "The Cowboys". This was originally intended for inclusion, but due to legal reasons the soundtrack to “The Cowboys” was impossible to license and had to be omitted from the John Wayne box set.

[indy4 155]

Oh wow...I guess Varese is really holding on to those rights!

[Thor 8,545]

Can't blame them.

[Nemesis 254]

Jaws II ($63)

The Reivers ($58)

Dracula ($56)

Eiger Sanction ($56)

Fitzwilly ($53)

The Cowboys ($21)

I just was lucky enough when I was about 17 years old in 1994 that all these CD's where in print. I ordered them all in a CD shop where the guy at the checkout always looked at me as if I'm an alien.

[indy4 155]

The only expensive JW film scores I'm missing are The Towering Inferno/Paper Chase and Stanely and Iris. Actually the latter's not too expensive, I hsould get it.

[Jay 39,891]

Ah yea, I don't have The Towering Inferno either... Add it to the list!

[Koray Savas 2,254]

I've obviously heard all those scores, I just don't own the physical CDs. I'm not going to waste money on 2nd hand copies that might come from some smoker's house who didn't take care of them, with ripped booklets, fingerprints, and cofee stains on them when an expanded release or straight re-issue is likely to come out in my lifetime. I can wait.

Well all those variables mentioned go under the product description. If something is listed as Like New and you get a ripped up peed on booklet then you can easily get your money back.

[King Mark 3,730]

I got all those Varese c.d.'s in print

[Muad'Dib 1,877]

How about The Eiger Sanction?

[JamieC 13]

Now I do feel old: my copies of Presumed Innocent and Stanley & Iris and The River are on audiocassette ( "On what ?" I hear some of you ask.)

[Thor 8,545]

Now I do feel old: my copies of Presumed Innocent and Stanley & Iris and The River are on audiocassette ( "On what ?" I hear some of you ask.)

Hey, I grew up on cassettes! I first owned JURASSIC PARK on a TAPED cassette before I bought the CD. Many of my formative years were between LPs and CDs.

[Richard P 4,292]

Can't blame them.

Why not? I do.

If you own something in perpetuity, but have no plans any time soon to do anything with that property, *and* someone else comes along and wants to license it and you still say no, that's selfish, and lose-lose for everyone.

[Thor 8,545]

It means I can't blame them because they know they're sitting on a treasure trove. I'm sure they're aware of the demand for either a reissue or an expanded version, and will do that when the time is right. Besides, if it's going for "only" 20 bucks in the secondary market, that's not too bad.

[Richard P 4,292]

They may have a different idea of "when the time is right" than the rest of us.

Townson stated in a recent interview (one of the concert-oriented ones) that he didn't feel everything needs expanding. If another label feels differently and wants to license a title, what does he have to gain by refusing?

Plus, Varese's club output has been far too low recently for any meaningful dent into their OOP/30-minuter catalogue. Other labels are more dedicated to reissues.

[Thor 8,545]

Yeah, I've given Townson kudos for that sentiment in person when I met him in Ghent (and he said the same thing in Krakow). It's nice to know that at least some people in the niche industry share my view. That being said, a straight reissue would no doubt put a few dollars in the Varese bank account.

[Incanus 5,823]

Townson follows his own view and philosphy when it comes to releasing soundtracks. I of course would love to have as many scores as possible released in their entirety not only to have the music, which I dearly love, but also for the benefit of the music itself from the music preservation point of view so that it would have a continued life in new formats instead of deteriorating beyond saving.

That said I would take a moderately priced re-issue of the OST over having nothing, especially of those OOP titles Jason mentioned.

[publicist 4,647]

Plus, Varese's club output has been far too low recently for any meaningful dent into their OOP/30-minuter catalogue. Other labels are more dedicated to reissues.

On the other hand, a few years ago i would have considered a 2-cd complete edition of PATRIOT GAMES as pure satire. It now seems that people feel somewhat betrayed if every score ever produced on god's green earth doesn't re-appear in often numbing complete form.

So i don't necessarily agree with Varése sitting on all this stuff but a bit of perspective might be in order.

[crocodile 8,677]

Let's not forget Townson was a pioneer (or one of) when it comes to re-releases like this. No need to make an enemy out of him. He released a fabulous Family Plot and Midway in the past few years and I'm sure some of these titles (especially Dracula) will get a treatment sooner or later.

Also, Varese Sarabande releases a shitloads of soundtracks regardless. Many of them quite lenghty (most Giacchinos).

Karol

[publicist 4,647]

Let's not forget Townson was a pioneer (or one of) when it comes to re-releases like this. No need to make an enemy out of him. He released a fabulous Family Plot and Midway in the past few years and I'm sure some of these titles (especially Dracula) will get a treatment sooner or later.

DRACULA, just like all of the old MCA titles, are out of Varése's reach since the mid-90's. MCA controls them.

[Jay 39,891]

How about The Eiger Sanction?

The original LP was released by MCA, like Jaws II and Dracula, so even though Varese eventually released the CD version, they don't have perpetuity rights. Hopefully it can be re-issued/expanded.

[Koray Savas 2,254]

That said I would take a moderately priced re-issue of the OST over having nothing, especially of those OOP titles Jason mentioned.

Let's call up Perseverance!

[Marian Schedenig 9,225]

Jaws II ($63)

The Reivers ($58)

Dracula ($56)

Eiger Sanction ($56)

Fitzwilly ($53)

The Cowboys ($21)

I just was lucky enough when I was about 17 years old in 1994 that all these CD's where in print. I ordered them all in a CD shop where the guy at the checkout always looked at me as if I'm an alien.

I picked up all of those at the local Virgin Megastore at various points throughout the second half of the 90s. Except Fitzwilly that is, I didn't get that before the expansion.

[Thor 8,545]

Same here. Acquired all of those in the 90's. FITZWILLY I got as an LP-to-CD transfer at the time. Can't remember what I paid for them, but it was definitely lower than what they're apparently going for now.

[Incanus 5,823]

Well good for you for being film music fans in the mid-90s.

[Thor 8,545]

The 90's 4-EVER!

[Richard P 4,292]

Plus, Varese's club output has been far too low recently for any meaningful dent into their OOP/30-minuter catalogue. Other labels are more dedicated to reissues.

On the other hand, a few years ago i would have considered a 2-cd complete edition of PATRIOT GAMES as pure satire. It now seems that people feel somewhat betrayed if every score ever produced on god's green earth doesn't re-appear in often numbing complete form.

So i don't necessarily agree with Varése sitting on all this stuff but a bit of perspective might be in order.

(bolded) Definitely guilty of that to an extent.

But to be fair, we've heard MV from LLL state that there are scores they want to expand and can't, because Varese owns them. And much of what I'm referring to is in that period when Varese could only afford 30 minute releases, so an expansion would really only be presenting what a decent initial release would've been.

[Thor 8,545]

Says you! I always felt the natural limitations that Varese operated with at the time (re-use fees etc.) made them think even harder on how to reconceptualize the scores for listening purposes. I thought it was a GOOD thing.

[Luke Skywalker 1,986]

I think you are unique in your way of thinking...

[TownerFan 5,307]

Says you! I always felt the natural limitations that Varese operated with at the time (re-use fees etc.) made them think even harder on how to reconceptualize the scores for listening purposes. I thought it was a GOOD thing.

I think you overestimate a tad too much the role of the so-called "album producer". There is nothing to "conceptualize". In many cases, it's just putting a bunch of tracks on disc in whatever order, composer/artist/studio giving seal of approval and then off to the mastering plant.